The 'Zero Carbon Australia' Plan

Following Gav's post announcing the Zero Carbon Australia plan, I thought I would share the key graphics and information from the synopsis report by Beyond Zero Emissions (BZE). Note also the launch of the full report in Melbourne on 14th July.

The Zero Carbon Australia report attempts to tackle head-on some of the arguments against renewables and to show that they can make much more than a niche contribution to total energy demand. With a target of 100% renewable energy by 2020, clearly this is an ambitious report. While no one suggests this is probable under politics as usual, it shows what might be possible if we are prepared to take a radically new approach.

In the peak oil sphere, there is significant concern about energy return from renewable energy projects. While this report does not explicitly use the term 'Energy Return on Energy Invested' (EROEI), it does provide the numbers for steel and concrete use required to deliver the plan against the current volume of use in Australia. We could get a lot more utility out of those resoures than we do at the moment.

Zero Carbon Australia

The ZCA2020 Plan shows that with a combination of energy efficiency, fuel-switching from gas and oil to electrified energy services, then using a combination of commercially available renewable energy technologies, Australia’s energy needs can be met with 100% renewables. Wind and Concentrating Solar Thermal (CST) with Molten Salt Storage are the two primary technologies used, with some backup from biomass and existing hydro.

Baseload Renewables and the Electricity Grid

Under the ZCA2020 Plan, it is projected that 2020 grid electricity demand will be over 40% higher than today, from 228TWh/yr up to 325TWh/yr. This increase in electricity demand is due largely to the switch of services currently provided by gas and oil to be supplied more efficiently with, renewable electricity. The increase is significantly offset by ambitious but achievable electrical energy efficient targets.

To meet this demand, a combination of wind and solar thermal with storage are proposed as the primary electricity generation technologies. Biomass and hydro are utilised as backup, supplying about 2% of annual electricity.

The ZCA2020 electricity generation mix has been quantitatively modelled in high detail using real-world data, with the results demonstrating that Australia’s electricity demand can be met by 100% renewable energy.

The data underlying the model are derived from real meteorological recordings of solar insolation at the 12 proposed CST sites, real wind speeds at existing wind farms, and grid demand based on actual demand in the National Electricity Market (NEM). Modelling has been performed on a half-hourly timescale for the years 2008 and 2009.

The Plan’s proposed combination of 42.5 GW of CST and 50 GW of wind provides enough energy to cover 98% of the electricity demand modelled, with the remaining 2% being supplied by existing hydro power (5 GW) and heat from biomass co-firing on 10 GW of the CST plants. This is represented by the small green and navy blue areas in Figure 9.

The Stationary Energy Plan proposes a comprehensive upgrade to Australia’s electricity grid to allow full utilisation of the distributed renewable energy network. The engineering firm Sinclair Knight Merz has reviewed the connection to the transmission network of the generation scenario proposed in the ZCA2020 Plan. The review found:

“the transmission scenario proposed is technically feasible in terms of capacity and reliability. In addition, the proposed transmission uses mature technology with proven capability around the world.”

Construction Timeline

The ten-year timeline proposed by The Plan projects a gradual scale-up of the renewable industry that would see most of the proposed infrastructure completed in the second half of the decade. Fast-track of permitting and planning approvals will be required.

The CST plants are modular, and once the design and planning for the first plant is complete then the process becomes one of replication on each of the 12 sites. Construction thus becomes progressively faster in the later stages as companies gain experience and become more efficient. Current power tower projects have a construction time of 2-2.5 years, though more mature parabolic trough projects are being completed in 1.5 years.

Energy Efficiency

Australia is an energy-intensive country, both in terms of energy consumption per capita and per dollar of Gross Domestic Product (GDP). An efficiency gain of 33% per capita is forecast for current-use energy services, an achievable target that will bring Australia in line with other modern economies.

Jobs

At election time, you can always rely on mainstream parties to rattle the 'we'll get tough on drugs and crime' can. Equally, when renewable energy is up for debate, you can rely on the same parties to suddenly be concerned about loss of jobs in the coal industry, jobs which they have never at any other time displayed any concern for. Of course, that still leaves some large communities vulnerable which will require great care to manage during the transition. But building new energy infrastructure is not going to lead to net loss of jobs.

Resource Use

While not often a concern in the mainstream, peak oil folks are painfully aware that renewable energy does not come with the same fantastic rate of energy return as the good old days of conventional oil. But short of a rapid collapse scenario, if we're going to have some kind of economy for the next decade or two, we can choose to have a few less bridges, stadiums and skyscrapers in the pursuit of renewable energy infrastructure. A few significant sacrifices may be required, but the building materials are available if we choose to invest them in such infrastructure.

The requirement for concrete amounts to 7% of Australia’s production over the 10 year timescale.

The requirement for steel is 20-30% of Australia’s domestic production, but only 1.3% of Australia’s total of iron ore exports and steel production.

The main components of heliostat mirrors are glass and silver. The glass required is larger than Australia’s production, but the demand can be met either by building one or two glass factories, or by imports.

Silver is used as the reflective material in the mirror and a thin film is used on the back of the glass. The silver requirements are very low with the Plan requiring less than 2% of Australia’s total production.

Financial Cost

Given their target audience, BZE understandably rely on some conventional economic comparisons to show that while the Zero Carbon Plan is certainly expensive, it is still 'affordable' compared to other sectors of the economy and Government expenditure.

Is it Possible?

As an engineer who has worked on energy and utility infrastructure for nearly ten years, I believe it is possible to build renewable energy on a very large scale. Some radical changes in the political landscape will be required, but I do not fear the technical challenges required to deliver something as audacious as the Zero Carbon Australia plan.

I am however concerned that our economic and financial systems are in serious trouble. Will the end of a 70 year credit cycle be enough to halt even willing Government's from such a grand plan? I hope not.

You can contact Beyond Zero Emissions, the authors of the Zero Carbon Australia plan here.

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Interesting graphs. Thanks for posting them.

I suspect that any "political will" to do something regarding large-scale renewable energy will only come once we have clearly entered a full-blown "energy crisis".

The big question is whether it will then be possible to scrape up enough energy, steel and concrete for the emergency Renewables build-out to occur. (Maybe Australia will be one of the few lucky places where it will be possible... Or will the pollies just be panicked over to the "dark side" of Coal-to-Liquids?)

I hope that this comment helps.
South Africa chose to spend it's windfall gold and diamond wealth on infrastructure.

I went to the South Africans.
They directed me to ISCOR. (the South African Iron and Steel Industry)
ISCOR was set up not to produce steel, but to produce skills.
It was supposed to make a loss.
We surprised everybody and made a profit.

My point.
Australia should use it's one off Iron and coal windfall to set up similar projects on renewables.The purpose of the projects would be to acquire skills for the future.
This will give us skills after the inevitable bust.
Who knows, it might even make a profit.

Exactly - and even if it makes a loss, as long as it generates useful infrastructure and skills, we're still ahead.

Look at social security. (Dole)
The cost of building the project can come out of social security, and end up costing nothing.
Some might complain about the new arrangement but "Arbeit macht frei"

Who said that?
I like it.
It's got a catchy ring.

I'll need to read the report in full but these snippets already pose questions. To take just one Figure 12 on new transmission seems to show a large amount of unnecessary duplication. Why have parallel lines from Pt Augusta to both Perth and Kalgoorlie? As opposed to just one line with a branch.

Other issues relate to energy storage costs and scaling technology to levels beyond existing experience. On a positive note it doesn't assume draconian per capita energy cuts. Like I said I'll read whatever reports are available.

A good report but here is a better one for the UK. See http://www.withouthotair.com/ for the download, a 50MB pdf file. http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sustainable/book/tex/sewtha.pdf
Bear in mind that the UK has far fewer energy resources than Australia. I hope that the Australian report is as comprehensive as this one is for the UK.

One thing I saw while I was driving to Brisbane last week made me think though. While driving through an unnamed town in the Hunter I saw a sign saying no mines because they will screw up the water, cause dust etc etc. A few more kms on in the same shire I saw a sign saying they wanted no wind turbines spoiling the view. I think it illustrated well the choice that countries must make in the future. One community clearly wanted neither option. Unfortunately that's not possible - unless you want to live without electricity and mechanised transport. I wonder how many people in this community would agree with the signs if they had been walking everywhere and had no electricity for a month. Not many!

This is yet another adolescent technocopian wet dream from TOD ANZ.Just a different screen name from the usual culprit.It is a pity that it has come to this.I will not bother to point out the glaringly obvious defects in this report as,being a parent of the old school,I have limited patience with trying to reason with children.

What this BZE report proposes is so far into fantasy that it has zero chance of getting past the hard headed,practical people in government and industry.When they explain the facts of the matter to the Australian people it has no chance there either,except in the fairy land inhabited by the quasi environmentalits.

The quasi environmentalists,and I count you as one,are doing just as much damage to the cause of real environmentalism as climate change deniers.They deny the problem,you admit the problem but propose solutions which belong in the realm of fantasy.

In short,the bottom line is this - it is nuclear or fossil fuels - get used to it and take your pick.

By the way,what are you and you and your partner in crime doing,in the personal sense, to reduce your footprint on Mother Earth? - put you money where your mouth is.

To paraphrase Garrett Hardin (something of a realist I believe) - There is nothing so dangerous as a well intentioned person who has only a tenuous grasp of reality.

Thirra?
Well I never!!
An Astroturfer!
Who would have thunk?

In short,the bottom line is this - it is nuclear or fossil fuels - get used to it and take your pick.

It's neither. Both are non-renewable and emissions nightmares. Apart from that I quite enjoyed your destruction of such a far-fetched plan. Honestly, the NSW government can't even bring a bus ticketing scheme into operation after 10 years! And were meant to believe that an entire restructuring of our way of life is possible in less than the same? So how's a reasonable guy not meant to get angry at this claim? Holy cow Big Gav, you ought to feel ashamed posting this sort of garbage.

Errr - I didn't say "In short,the bottom line is this - it is nuclear or fossil fuels - get used to it and take your pick" - what makes you think I did ?

Its the opposite of what I've consistnetly said for years (ie. we need neither of these).

As for Thirra - you are becoming increasingly obnoxious.

Phil (who has been my co-editor here at TOD ANZ since day 1) posted this article, not me - accusing me of posting under a false name simply indicates to me that you are losing the plot - why would I bother ? I'm happy to say what I think under my own name.

Agree that Thirra is a hard liner, but suggest that TOD needs a healthy dose of reality injected from time to time. This report, like others, makes a good case for what might be technically possible for in an ideal world with ideal policy settings and unmatched political leadership. I think the value of these reports are in their advocacy value, but they only hang to reality by a thread, and the downside is that environmentalists who don't have a firm grasp of the sheer scale of replacing a century's worth of energy infrastructure believe that our energy needs will be fixed if governments handed out a few more dollars for solar. I note that the report suggests a "theoretical" additional annual cost of $1,700 per person per year ($37B / 22 million) - will families of four be happy to pay an extra $6,800 per year - if not, who else will pay?

Did anyone who read the report note the assumption that all cars and freight trains will be replaced with electric? Is it technically possible to retire Australia's 13 million cars plus the many millions still to be sold between now and 2020, with an all electric fleet? Well, maybe, but this assumption simply makes a mockery of whatever good points the report makes and I think it's a great shame that they included it.

Where should you get a dose of reality - start with reading Vaclav Smil, and have a closer look at Germany - Germany has invested tens of billions of Euros in solar PV, has an industry going gangbusters, employing tens of thousands of people and enjoying rapid growth and strong support. Germany is held up by supporters in Australia and elsewhere as the model that we should adopt. So what proportion of electricity came from solar in Germany last year? About 1%.

a healthy dose of reality injected from time to time.

You mean like this reality?

SP this is priceless! Your response to Graham_P's valid criticism of the "Zero Plan" and other pie in the sky schemes, is to launch an ad hominem attack on Thirra? Too funny!

An ad hominem attack is to say, "X is a poopyhead, therefore X is wrong." It's not an ad hominem to refer to X's other comments on other matters to show their views on other issues.

Thirra is a racist. His ideas on the economy, energy sources, etc are shaped by that racism and other reactionary ideas. His ideas are reactionary and generally poorly thought-through. If it's not from some idealised version of 1950s Australia, he doesn't like it.

And he still hasn't answered what he personally does to reduce his environmental impact. But it's easy to hold others to higher standards than yourself.

Kiashu,

That may be the case, that thirra is a racist, but what has that got to do with the argument at hand? Which is how much more valuable time do we need to waste on hare-brained schemes like this? What's needed is a down to earth consideration of what realistically can be achieved. This sort of vision merely encourages complacency, when we need to rise to the challenge of coping with the inevitable powering down, whether we like it, or not.

Of course the difficulty remains that no one ever votes for austerity.

Sorry guys - didn't mean to jump into a debate about racism - thought this was an energy site .....

Anyway for anyone in Melbourne who's interested, there's a public seminar coming up about the Zero Carbon plan here:

When: Wednesday 14 July, 6.00pm – 8.00pm

Where: ‘The Spot’, Basement Theatre, 198 Berkeley Street, University of Melbourne

This is a free public seminar and bookings are not necessary. Please arrive early to secure a seat.

For the outline of seminars throughout the year please see the attached program. To register for updates of future Melbourne Energy Institute events please visit our contacts section at: www.energy.unimelb.edu.au.

I'll post this here.

My point, for what it's worth.

What is the point of wading into this 'debate' calling all and sundry idiots, children and fantasists, your words dripping with vitriol when people suggest alternative points of view.

Where are the 'positive' comments? Where is the engagement and thoughtful argument?

As Kiashu states, his views, which if he had bothered to remember (or search) I had on occasion agreed with, are irredeemably colored by his, if not racism, then bigotry.

I do not agree with some of the more technophile dreams posted here, but recognize that without dreams we would never push the boundaries of the possible. Thirras views would keep us in thrall to the status quo ... until his dreamed of global crash.

His vision is dark and uninspiring.

For my part. I will stop taking the opportunity to remind people of his other views, his "reality", IF he ever did the decent thing.

And for what it's worth... Garret Hardin is not the be all and end all of environmental philosophy: I guess he's a "realist" if you agree with him. The 'private ownership' branch of his views is hailed in the US among those to whom any thought of regulation is anathema.

Of course the difficulty remains that no one ever votes for austerity.

If people aren't going to vote for it, then like nuclear, perhaps it's not a (politically) realistic option either?

Will it have to be forced down our throats by the 'hard headed realists', in which case whither democracy?

Possibly the real 'complacency' (if you mean delay) is due to the existing coal industry. And it would appear that the mining interests behind them, would rather we just swap out one mineral fuel for another, and let the Govt subsidize the development of the power stations.

In a sense I agree with your sentiment. The problem I have with many of these plans (nuclear included) is that they start at the centre. Plans like that are the heart lung transplant option instead of the quit option and people need incentives to quit.

Will it have to be forced down our throats by the 'hard headed realists', in which case whither democracy?

Yes, since we are unwilling to do what's necessary, i.e. to power down, our lives will be scaled back involuntarily by the hardest realist of all - mother nature.

You mean western liberal democracy? Finished. After all, the monied and political elites have been tap dancing on its head for years.

That may be the case, that thirra is a racist, but what has that got to do with the argument at hand? Which is how much more valuable time do we need to waste on hare-brained schemes like this? What's needed is a down to earth consideration of what realistically can be achieved.

You are correct that an argument has truth or falsity on its own, regardless of the truth or falsity of other arguments made by the same person. If thirra says that 2+2=4 and that 3x7=28, the falsity of the second statement does not influence the truth of the first.

However, not all statements are so self-evidently true or false. "In short,the bottom line is this - it is nuclear or fossil fuels - get used to it and take your pick" is an example of a not immediately obviously true or false statement. We need a bit more argument behind that statement before we should accept or reject it.

However, thirra refuses to give any further reasoning. He just makes the poorly-punctuated statement, "I will not bother to point out the glaringly obvious defects in this report as,being a parent of the old school,I have limited patience with trying to reason with children."

When someone makes a statement which is not self-evidently true or false, refuses to give any explanation for it, it's open to us to simply reject or accept it out of hand. If a person has a history of making reasonable and intelligent arguments, we'll be inclined to accept it. If the person has a history of making unreasonable or unintelligent arguments, we'll be inclined to reject it.

In short, if you want to make statements, you should back them up. If you can't be bothered backing them up, then the statements should at least be reasonable, and should not be kept company by bigoted and stupid statements. If you can't be bothered backing up your statements, and your statements are unreasonable and bigoted, then you can't really complain when people say, "oh just bugger off, then."

He's unreasonable, bigoted, and thinks we're too stupid to understand the brilliance of his arguments. In short he's worthless in discussion, and should be ignored.

The idea that the scheme is "hare-brained" is also one which is not obviously self-evident, and needs reasonable backing. Because you've not got a history of saying bigoted and stupid things, you'll find that we'll give you the benefit of the doubt and a chance to explain yourself.

Of course the difficulty remains that no one ever votes for austerity.

People do indeed vote for austerity. Rationing has been happily accepted in the West in difficult times. People are happy to accept austerity if they believe it's for a worthwhile cause, like winning a war or ensuring a fair share of necessities to the rest of the society.

Austerity for its own sake is unpopular, yes. For a well-articulated purpose, most people are happy with it.

The idea that the scheme is "hare-brained" is also one which is not obviously self-evident, and needs reasonable backing. Because you've not got a history of saying bigoted and stupid things, you'll find that we'll give you the benefit of the doubt and a chance to explain yourself.

The scheme may or may not be "hare-brained" on a purely technical level, as the energy cost calculations don't seem to be available. Perhaps when the full report is released in a few days? But I won't hold my breath waiting for anything sensible to emerge from it in this area.

However the time-frame for achieving it certainly is. Robert Hirsch, commissioned to write the now infamous, Peaking of World Oil Production: Impacts, Mitigation, and Risk Management, at the request of the US Department of Energy, came to the conclusion that mitigation efforts for something like Peak Oil will require a substantial amount of time. Around 20 years if we are to possibly escape the worst effects of any liquid fuels shortfall.

Of course the world economy would be completely toasted well before then if we didn't take any counter measures, which if the liquid fuels peak is or is soon to be in, means we're already out of time. Even if its still 10 years away, which is unlikely, we are still toast.

People do indeed vote for austerity. Rationing has been happily accepted in the West in difficult times. People are happy to accept austerity if they believe it's for a worthwhile cause, like winning a war or ensuring a fair share of necessities to the rest of the society.

This may have been the case in the past when people had a greater sense of community and fewer material expectations or possessions. For example, the Depression era generation probably did not have too much more to sacrifice as a result of war-time rationing. Indeed many would have been grateful for a regular supply of staple goods and a chance at steady employment in some munitions factory etc.

There's also the whole debt issue that hangs over us, like never before. The un or underemployed can't service their mortgage/car/boat payments with ration cards now, can they?

Austerity for its own sake is unpopular, yes. For a well-articulated purpose, most people are happy with it.

Perhaps, however the news with Peak Oil, Global Warming, economic collapse, mass species extinction and general resource depletion is all bad. It's one thing to ask people to embrace austerity in the hopes of something better arising from their sacrifice. It's another to pull the carpet more or less permanently from under them and their descendants, consigning the majority to perpetual debt slavery at best, (unless they revolt), an early death at worse.

Just ask most ordinary Greeks if they accept the "well-articulated" notion that even though their futures are cactus, heh, at least wealthy bankers and bondholders are kept whole, which is what counts.

Of course the world economy would be completely toasted well before then if we didn't take any counter measures, which if the liquid fuels peak is or is soon to be in, means we're already out of time. Even if its still 10 years away, which is unlikely, we are still toast.

What does all this mean?
What does "toast" mean here. Defunct? Dead? Does that mean we no longer exist as well?

The "world economy" will still exist, just not in the same state. And isn't that your objective anyway? Ie Powerdown?

This may have been the case in the past when people had a greater sense of community and fewer material expectations or possessions.For example, the Depression era generation probably did not have too much more to sacrifice as a result of war-time rationing. Indeed many would have been grateful for a regular supply of staple goods and a chance at steady employment in some munitions factory etc.

Wartime rationing before the depression? Which depression are we talking about?! My history has depression preceding WWII... never mind some of the assertions... and in all of this, which country are we talking about?

Just ask most ordinary Greeks if they accept the "well-articulated" notion that even though their futures are cactus, heh, at least wealthy bankers and bondholders are kept whole, which is what counts

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Are you so well informed of Greek opinion? Surely not by the MSM? What do you mean by "futures are Cactus"? Let's see what happens in a few years. For all we know, the current screaming will settle down and people will accept the change.

Remember the screaming that took place here when import duties were dropped and the economy was 'opened up'?
All gone now... new reality accepted. 'Democracy' [yes I know our system is flawed] still in place...

What does all this mean?
What does "toast" mean here. Defunct? Dead? Does that mean we no longer exist as well?

The "world economy" will still exist, just not in the same state. And isn't that your objective anyway? Ie Powerdown?

The termination of business as usual, including globalisation as we have know it these past few decades. Yes, economies would still exist, but on a much simpler and simplifying level as we slide down the net energy curve as the extraction of oil eventually reaches unity.

We may continue to exist, but on a much smaller scale. Good for the environment and good for us as we would never again be able to threaten our survival with the spectre of all out thermonuclear war, mass environmental destruction or hopelessly inflated egos.

Wartime rationing before the depression? Which depression are we talking about?! My history has depression preceding WWII... never mind some of the assertions... and in all of this, which country are we talking about?

I think most reasonable people understand that the depression in my reference, as one that also preceded an outbreak of war - with rationing, was that of the Great Depression. Or that the generation alive during that time was also the one that lived during WWII. Also, since we happen to be living in Australia and this is TOD:ANZ to which other country do you suppose I was referring to?

Are you so well informed of Greek opinion? Surely not by the MSM? What do you mean by "futures are Cactus"? Let's see what happens in a few years. For all we know, the current screaming will settle down and people will accept the change.

Yes, I have dual citizenship. I have a business in Greece and my parents still live there, so I can safely say that I am quite well informed of the situation, having some skin in the game, as they say. I can assure you that once the bailouts are done with that the unrest, especially of the young, marginalised and radicalised (often one and the same, although my Mum is pretty pissed off and she's 64) will resurface again.

Remember the screaming that took place here when import duties were dropped and the economy was 'opened up'?
All gone now... new reality accepted. 'Democracy' [yes I know our system is flawed] still in place...

I don't recall any screaming, here? In Australia, by whom? The general public? They were out in the streets with Molotov cocktails, fighting the police and blockading the countryside like in Greece?

You can't honestly hope to compare the removal of some tariffs with the unleashing of peak oil, the envelopment of global warming and the unfolding economic collapse, could you? Nor what toll all this will have on the future of "democracy". Could you?

I think most reasonable people understand

So I am unreasonable?
Maybe I misread your statement. But I don't think the phrase "depression era" is as clear as you make out.

since we happen to be living in Australia and this is TOD:ANZ

1/ How do I know where you live?
2/ This is an open board. There have been times in the past where people from the main "US" board post comments here that are sometimes slightly awry & out of context.

Yes, I have dual citizenship.

How do I know that? Why didn't you clarify this at the start with out assuming that we were either mind readers or should otherwise assume that you have some special knowledge? Would it have been too hard to say "As a duel citizen of Greece and Australia le di da ...."

You can't honestly hope to compare the removal of some tariffs with the unleashing of peak oil, the envelopment of global warming and the unfolding economic collapse, could you?

Did I... but, DID I? No. I did not make that comparison. You made that one for me. Thanks but no thanks.

I am not a fool for asking you to clarify your sometimes colourful/hyperbolic but imprecise and vague statements (eg "hopelessly inflated egos").... and it doesn't make me unreasonable or irrational to do so.

Anyway... why defend Thirra when he refuses to do it himself?

I don't think there is any real argument between us other than for the sake of it is there?

Anyway... why defend Thirra when he refuses to do it himself?

I never was defending him. Read my posts. Whether he's a racist or not is immaterial. Do his criticisms of this plan appear valid. I think they do and only the tide of time, which I might add is running in his favour, can rebut them.

I don't think there is any real argument between us other than for the sake of it is there?

I'm here to argue the facts, not play the man.

Whether he's a racist or not is immaterial. Do his criticisms of this plan appear valid.

But, what exactly where his criticisms of this plan?
That they are fools and 'we' are stupid. That's not a dialogue, it's a diatribe. It serves no constructive purpose.

If he has no time to tell us where the report is wrong then he has told us nothing, attitude not withstanding.

I don't see where he injected any "reality", any new insights, into the argument. Just emotion.

Having experienced one of his irrational assertion driven rants I merely pointed back to the evidence.

I suspect that a rescaling (downward) of economic activity will happen... but I am less certain of the 'crash' scenario. And an honest broker should also temper their certainty - especially about the future.

I'm here to argue the facts, not play the man.

Mostly. Let's call it a hard headed approach... a bit like ramming stuff down peoples throats I guess.

In closing, it was Graham_P with his thoughtful addition who provided the facts, but I personally found his opening comments about needing a "healthy dose of reality" from Thirra too tempting.

Big Gav, whatever our differences of opinion, you may have misunderstood what happened here. My reply was to Thirra's remarks in the first instance and never implied that you and they were one and the same person. :) I appreciate your position against the use of nukes and acknowledge it. Peace!

No worries - sorry if I misunderstood your comment.

Thanks for trying to keep things civil :-)

By the way,what are you and you and your partner in crime doing,in the personal sense, to reduce your footprint on Mother Earth? - put you money where your mouth is.

I pointed them to this article to begin with, so I'll count myself as one of their partners in crime.

Our regular significant sources of emissions of things we can control are each week, in our household of 2.6 people (a couple living with a student more than half the year),

Transport
- train, 100km
- car, 50km

Electricity
- 35kWh sourced from wind (about 7% the impact of coal)

Natural gas
- 280MJ (we pay an extra buck a week for so-called carbon offsets, but in fact these are merely emissions reduction measures the company is legally obliged to take anyway, so we don't count it as balancing our emissions, even though the company does - but we figure we should support any good action).

Water
- 1,100lt (1/5 to 1/3 Aussie average, depending on state)

Food
- little packaged goods
- meat & fish, 1kg weekly (average Aussie household consumes 5-6kg)

General consumption
- mostly op shop stuff, I've tallied our new purchases but won't bore you with the details

Waste
- 6kg recycling (equivalent to Aussie household average)
- 1kg rubbish (less than 1/10th)

As well, on average we plant one tree a week in a friend's yard or some public place where it won't get noticed amongst other trees.

Overall, counting the trees as a net zero carbon contribution, our emissions are around 1/4 the Western average, or equivalent to the world average. The IPCC 2007 report said we had to have an 85% reduction worldwide by 2050. Well, things households can control directly are about 1/2 of all emissions in the West, so our 75% reduction would if spread across the West be a 38% reduction. That would leave another 40-50% to be found from stopping deforestation and improving the efficiency of agriculture and industry.

For a typical household drop by 50% its emissions impact is a piece of piss, simply eliminating the utterly wasteful things will usually do it. Further takes a bit of effort, but we can get another 20-30% down without drama, and saving money (cycling and training it is cheaper than driving, and vegies cheaper than meat, after all). Reducing by another 10% or so takes serious effort and dedication, and is difficult without local infrastructure (eg bike paths). But we've done a bit personally.

That's what we've done, what have you done, thirra? Pimping nuclear doesn't count as action to reduce footprint, by the way, any more than pimping renewables is. You must actually do something - or refrain from doing something, in this case.

What have you done, thirra?

Answering briefly the "what have I done" question :

- Switched to 100% Greenpower
- I ride or walk to work (occasionally taking public transport if the weather is sufficiently hostile or I'm sick)
- My car is 10 years old and has done 80,000 km (for a family of 4)

Plus I encourage others to do the same, along with trying to encourage the provision of electric vehicles to the local market (when the infrastructure is in place, I'll buy one).

I also have 100% greenpower and cycle or tram to work. When I do drive a car, it gets about 5.5L/100km and there's usually two of us in it.

I think electric bicycles and ultra-compact electric cars (eg 1/5 mass and energy use of a conventional car) have a big future (as well as more public transport, more walking and cycling, and smaller conventional cars). I don't think big Chevy Volts help us very much.

And yes I wrote this article without any help from Gav.. we just happen to think the same way about large scale solar power :-)

Phil

Phil,
Thanks- very useful given WA govt's current planning for a 30-year energy plan. Do you or anyone on this site know how much natural gas is left in a gas well when it stops producing- I know that for oil it can by 45-70%, depending on the well geology and any artificial means to increase pressure (eg water insertion)? cheers
dave,. STCWA

As an Australian I want this!

I like the idea of not burning all that coal and I dont want nuclear waste to deal with forever.

If they threw everthing at the Snowy River Scheme and achieved what they did I think they could do it again. Can a grass roots approval of the idea make it happen? How would the idea be widely spread to the people in time to get it up and running before peak oil makes it harder?

I agree that this is technically possible. But with the MSM stuck on boat people and Lindsay Lohan (whoever she is) and Ms Gillard so badly advised I don't think we will ever do anything (as a country) meaningful about either AGW or PO. We will wait until the two problems hit us in the face like wet fish and then panic. Our response will be idiotic. Many of us on this site have watched the years roll by and nothing has changed. If anything the trends are worse, both as regards the problems themselves and the publics perception of them. i.e the gap is widening on both fronts. Some sort of economic collapse is on the cards, even if it is in slow motion (ie not overnight).

SailDog,

Have you considered, (cause it sure looks like they didn't) how much energy it would take to build all the solar concentrating towers (of which none have ever been built in Australia), all the windmills, the new national electricity grid, all the electric cars, trucks, buses and trains, and everything else that needs to be replaced to give a 50% efficiency boost? Or the lifetime of the solar tracking devices and energy payback period of the solar arrays? Don't these factors make their "technically feasible" assumptions look a tad wobbly, sort of like half set jelly, after a while?

Like I said earlier this is pure loony tunes. The NSW government can't even roll out a simple bus ticketing system after 10 years, but people want to believe, that all this and Zanzibar too, can happen in less time than that (and within the context of economic collapse). Well I guess they can choose to believe it, if it gives them any comfort.

A solar thermal plant has been operating in the Hunter for years (and one out at White Sands too i think) - it was the prototype of Ausra's technology.

Just because we haven't built any large scale ones like in the US, Spain etc doesn't mean we don't have the capability - its just metal mirrors, some fluid and a turbine - Bill Gross's company is even trying to offer turnkey plants built by a German construction company.

The technology has been around for 40 years now...

Thanks Gav,

Point taken, but is this plant in commercial operation? How about the other comments I've made? I await your reply, perhaps after you've had time to digest the contents of the full report?

Yes - its part of the Liddell power station.

http://www.theherald.com.au/news/local/news/general/liddell-fires-up/132...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTsvSXnOPjw

As for your other comments, the cost of the infrastructure is shown in the graphics above (along with a comparison to other stuff we spend our money on) - I can't see how any limits (other than political ones) stop this being technically feasible.

I don't for a moment think it will happen by 2020 of course, but once people understand its possible, eventually we'll do it (as there won't be any other / better option available) - but I'd say 2040 or 2050 are more likely as a realistic timeframe for implementation (once all the political blockages are removed).

I said technically feasible. If we had the will we could do it, it is the will that is missing. There is no leadership in Australia. Julia Gillard might be a good politician, but she is not a leader. Tony Abbott hasn't got his nick name "The Mad Monk" for nothing and the Greens are nowhere politically, they do not even influence the discussion. Which is a pity because I like their policies. ABARE have led the government deeply astray on PO. In fact it is hard to dream up any scenario where they could have done worse. The ETS, our feeble tilt at AGW is in a coma. The GFC (which is ongoing and will get worse despite news of growth (happy days!). It killed Copenhagen and continuing economic distress will kill any attempt to deal with the energy crisis at any level.

As I said: Nothing will happen anyway, so the technical feasibility is moot.

Do you mean government leadership like they showed with the debacles of the Green Loans program, ceiling insulation rebate, disfunctional REC scheme (at least this is being addressed), solar rebate, and poorly designed CPRS that was supported by no-one who understood it?

The fundamental problem we have is that (nearly) all of the energy utilities that provided service for the public interest have been sold off. The old State Electricity Commission of Victoria provided planning decades in advance and could have begun retiring coal generators with natural gas at a modest cost to consumers, and researched other options, including renewables and nuclear. The private operators interest is served by constraining available supply while encouraging higher demand, which helps maintain prices and revenue. Nearly all of the expertise has been lost from the federal public service and it's going to be a tough ask bringing back the good old days of the twentieth century of nation building for the public interest.

I have wondered in the past whether Governments sell off public infrastructure like water, electricity and transport when a problem looms (ie they have to spend money) and don't want the responsibility of being stuck with the hot potato... off loading it to the private sector to get a an immediate cash bonus to spend at election time. Not the govts problem anymore!

Of course the stated reason is that it will be cheaper and more 'efficient' as a private venture.

I think of Melbournes foundering transport system as the classic example... Only here it also benefits the highway building sector as well - who seem to have friends in the right places.

Or Telecom. Every election the increase in call costs or faults in service was a 'political' issue. Solution = privatize Telecom. Now it's an issue between Telstra and the customer and a toothless ombudsman.

And both major parties have been sold (and on sell) the ideology that the private sector always, but always, knows best and is more 'efficient'.

I hope there are some serious prosecutions coming out of the debacles described above. While the Govt agencies responsible appear to have failed miserably in there oversight duties... it was the private sector operators who efficiently fleeced the public.

I've got a feeling that Peak Oil will be a fairly big fish:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJQp-q1Y1s
;-)

BTW, the Saudis are going nuclear...
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hQlWp47iZHJNsJ8cL8Hrl...
...Now why do that if their reserves are as large as they claim?

Ive got a better plan.

Multipurpose "Railways"

Aims
1 Move water around to fertile soil.
2 Logistics
3 Move electrical power
4 Secure food supply
6 Carbon free energy
7 Skills training for a post FF age.
8 Combine several problems into one solution.

Make the rail gauge 200 meters.
The rail line to carry power, water, communications and rail traffic.
The Railway plant continuously circles Australia in the same direction as the prevailing wind. (Anti-clockwise)

Energy is harvested opportunistically around the line.

Water is pumped around through the line.
Grow the national food supply between the rails.

The 200 meter wide plant is serviced by shuttle plant so it never stops.
Beneath the shuttle plant is the agricultural plant, which spans the crop.

So, three tier multi purpose railway line. Bottom tier agricultural,middle tier Shuttle and top tier is perpetually moving community.