My view of the situation at the moment is that we're in the shit, but sinking very slowly indeed, and in no case will firearms help us paddle through it.

And I say that as the "green with a gun".

Firearms are like cars: everyone should know how to use them safely, but that does not mean everyone should have one, and nobody needs to use one every day. Though some people will say they do, really, honest.

The nature of our problems is economic and cultural; our culture of conspicuous consumption and conspicuous waste. These are causing us problems both social (crime, stress) and environmental (resource depletion, pollution). Again, none of those will be helped by firearms.

What sort of numbers are we talking about, here, in people at your clubs? These clubs are pretty small to begin with, as I understand it. What's the most, maybe 1,000 extra Australia-wide? Mate, that could just be people who watched some article on Today Tonight about home invasions and got scared. Those idiots won't be around a year from now to pick up their first firearm.

Mood in my area. (Esperance,WA)
It has gone subconcious. No-one talks about it. I am condemned for raising the issue of the end of civilisation. Why? Because people feel the change, but do not articulate it. I wonder if this is a reflex created by the evolutionary process. It would make sense not to alert potential rivals. Am I deficit in this area?

Weapons? I am an immigrant from the failed frontiers of civilisation. Weapons were a way of life, and death.(My brother was killed by an SKS).
I needed to buy a rifle to kill kangaroos that were eating my trees. When looking down on the beautiful offering on the shop counter, I felt revolted. And the lack of respect shown by the vendor to his wares! (He called it a "Gun").

Civilians do not respect weapons. They are religous objects. Sex is a religous act. (The creation of Life) Shooting someone is a religous act. (The taking of Life) The rifle is a religous object. It has only one use.

I don't have a clue as to the mood in my area but my mood is the same as always.I was raised in a farming family,rifle in one hand and bur chopping hoe in the other to exaggerate a bit.Also,as an ex Army Vietnam vet,a firearm,to me, is just a tool to do a job.Also to be used responsibly and safely.

In addition,I regard it as my right as a citizen to bear arms.This is not recognized in the Austalian constitution as it is in the US - a pity.

It is a pity because,ultimately,an armed,politically conscious,responsible citizenry is the last defense against lawlessness whether it emanates from the mob or from their proxies,the government.

If this makes me guilty of sedition then so be it.I was accused of as much in 1996 by the late unlamented Member for Longman,The Hon Mal Brough,MHR.Better known as Barking Mad Brough post NT intervention.The perils of being a Service Corps captain,eh?

Cheers from thirra - still a (licensed)firearm owner.

The mood here in north central Vic is grimly cheerful. We 'dodged a bullet' with the bushfires but are still desperate for rain, and the global economic crisis is way down the list of concerns. No surge in gun ownership that i've heard of, but theres a growing us(locals) & them(strangers) vibe, due to fear of arsonists. Nobody expects hoards of city refugees or zombie bikers - i think the parlous situation of rural Oz makes that unlikely.

All seems fine here. I'm in greater Brisbane, and have not yet ever felt a desire to own a gun, despite a lot of indoctrination from nasty video games (which I make). I can't currently conceive of a situation what would bring Australian society to true anarchy; even peak oil is too slow a process that can be actively combated with market forces and technology. Not to say it won't suck if you live in the exurbs and drive a V8, but it won't stop the flow of food, which is mostly grown locally.

Okay I can think of a few, but it would have to be a real shock to the system, like America declaring war against china, or the sudden collapse of the wais. And those threats will be much better faced with active community building than a gun.

My brain is an active one, constantly hopping from one line of thought to another, so you'll forgive me if this reply is somewhat disjointed (it took me forever to write the 'Breakfast with the Green Car Forum' article in a somewhat coherent manner (kudos to Phil Hart for the title).

I work in Retail, so I see both the best and worst of the locals. It's an average town, now more like a small sattelite city than when my family moved back here when I was a young tacker, after several years overseas. Most people are polite, if stand-offish. Like all other things, however, it's the minority who ruin it for everyone else. And the minority can be downright hostile.

There's a rush to get things done at the moment. Vehicle traffic is increasingly pushy, desperate to get wherever they want to go, and on more than one occasion, I've watched someone weaving in an out of traffic for several kilometres, only to pull into a servo or shopping centre car park, having 'made up' perhaps 100m on where they started. I drive sedately, although at the speed limit, my asthmatic 4-potter simply not being capable these days of swift accelleration, and this brings me the occasional ire of other drivers. With the number of traffic lights dotted around town, hard accelleration just gets you to the next red light quicker. I'd rather save fuel. In the shops, people are less polite than they perhaps used to be. Groups spread out across aisles and walkways, blocking others wishing to go past in either direction, or stop in the middle of walkways with no warning, or try to jam prams and trollies in gaps that simply aren't there. I'm not seeing any measurable (by eye) slowdown in the economy, though. Perhaps people are just window-shopping instead of buying, but the shops are still seeing a lot of people walking in and out the doors, especially the entertainment retailers, like EB, Angus and Robertson, and JB Hi-Fi (JB are, by the way, pure evil. Far too many ways to spend money you probably shouldn't).

Basically, locally, things are hectic, and going to get worse. Developers are still pushing hard for a massive residential/industrial development on what is basically a floodplain (prospective buyers should probably check the historical flood records before signing on). The roads are filled to capacity, the Council has no spare funds to build sewerage and water supply lines. Southerners are moving up in droves so they can die somewhere other than Melbourne or Sydney, in a state with a still-functioning, although increasingly rickety, Health System (in my experience, the Health workers 'at the coal face' do an admirable job in the face of Managerial and Government incomptence). Fleshed-out plans for the future from the Council are non-existent, save for an unwavering belief in the Perpetual Exponentional Growth Fairy.

At night, things change somewhat. Everything, save the pubs and cinemas, closes around 9pm. The streets are practically deserted, if moderately well-lit. But there is a palpable sense of non-specific danger. I've heard more than a few storied lately about unprovoked bashings, assaults, random violence, and the like. My other halfs brother was attacked himslf just a few weeks ago, because someone (who had apparently already been in a fight earlier that night), mistook him for an Pacific Islander. Sure, he's a big bloke, but he's white. Even in the dark you've never mistake him for an Islander. Despite the potential fight being two-on-two, he's smart enough to just run. No sense getting involved if you don't have to. This is because it seems like everyone has a 'gang' these days. Get involved in even the smallest incident, and twenty minutes later there's half a dozen blokes there looking for a punch-on. I don't know if they think it'll impress the ladies, or if it's some machismo 'stand by your mate' bullshit, or something... darker. My other half's father recently, with he help of another motorist, saw off three teenagers who were harassing a young girl walking her dog. I've been harassed and threatened at work by a 'gang of three' who ride their pushbikes through the shop (like all bullies, however, they backed down when bluffed), and I also did a 'drive-by' late one night when I saw one young girl walking with three boys (I shouldn't worry, after all, it's all probably innocent, but I'd have never forgiven myself if I hadn't checked and later found out there'd been an assault).

The local flea-market is flourishing, with crowds of people descending on it every weekend, although the stall-holders seem to be the same people, week after week, flogging off old tools, car parts, ornamental plants, and obviously bootlegged CD's and DVD's.

And amongst all this, the local rifle range has gone strangely quiet. I don't know wether this is just that I don't hear them because I'm asleep, or if there's a genuine reduction in use. I do know, however, that to get a gun in this town doesn't require much work. I've never owned a gun, never fired one (unless you count the 'Shooting Ducks' arcades at the annual Shows), and only held one or two, but it's not hard to find people who are able to get you something.

My family has been in the area for nearly a hundred years. When my immediate family moved back here, it was a sleepy country town. My other half's family are from western Sydney, and moved here 20-some years ago. Only last week, we had a conversation about how much the local area (and the population) are starting to resemble the area they left. The other halfs' Father is the original rough diamond. Always a happy smile, comes from a dirt-poor (and I mean poor background), and has 'seen it all', but even he's starting to worry. And if he's worried, I'm worried.

I'm sorry that you all in Australia have to jump through such onerous hoops in order to get a pistol. Here in Texas, USA, you fill out the form, do the 10-day waiting period, and pick it up at the store. And it's not licensed nor registered, and neither are you (unless you want to carry it conealed for self defense, in which case you take an 8 hour course and shoot 50 rounds).

But what I really want to communicate is that the current economic downturn has not brought with it more people seeking access to guns in Texas. I have many guns as I want at home, plenty of ammo, no plans to buy more of either. People are worried about Obama putting more restrictions on guns, and there are purchases being made on that basis... but NOT because of the economy. In fact, some people in debt may be selling off some of their guns. But I bet they'll always keep at least one.

Cheers and good luck
Peter

Here in the US, after the Obama win, I've observed several acquaintances becoming new gun owners. The general story seems to be that since we now have a President that's not to the right of Attila the Hun, society will be going down the tubes quite quickly.

On a related note, I think sincere gun hobbyists in the US are in quite an ethical quandary. I know that they care deeply about things like responsibility and gun safety. Unfortunately, though, the main representative of their hobby in the US does not, and exerts a vicious and pernicious effect on our political system here.

The other day a couple of short scrawny "kids" in line to by soup were talking about shooting, what guns they had, what version of the 45 is their next purchase.

I mean they were freshman university, babyfaced geeks talking about their arsenal like it were video games.

Around here all you need is a valid drivers license, 18 years old, have a pulse.

One of my employees said her BF has loaded guns hidden all over his house.

Some scary $hist

My hope is that the ammunition supply runs out pretty quickly.

Some of these comments are sadly predictable - like this last submission by biophiliac. Tell me, Sir, what exactly do you know, versus what you've been told? Whose programming do you carry?

If you'd like to check out some real US data, I'd recommend the work of Prof. Gary Kleck:
http://www.guncite.com/
Read first - then respond. This site is to the hand-wringers what realclimate.org is to the AGW deniers.

Personally, I've changed my mind several times on the subject over the past few decades. I now have concealed-carry permits for both Oregon and Washington. So does the wife. As I age and become more vulnerable (and more wealthy), it made simple sense to me. You make up your own mind - but don't use words like "fantasy" to describe the thought processes of millions of others whom you will never know.

It's not a fantasy, and it's certainly not all that unlikely that I'll dissuade a perp at some time with my weapon. It happens somewhere between 1.5 and 2 million times each year in the US, cf. Kleck. Is it my passion, an all-consuming preoccupation? That would be ridiculous. But I also wear a seat belt every time I travel in an auto, despite the fact that I've never been in a serious wreck in the half-century of experience.

Anyway, I'm being deliberately inflammatory here, because it strikes me that this typical Rambo accusation from an ignorant gun-phobe carries as much water as the Pope prohibiting oral sex between married couples. Learn first, then spout - this isn't a faith-based forum.

It is interesting to me that Australia is so limiting on firearms. I live in Texas, work in the O&G Industry. I am educated and live in an urban setting. I grew up hunting birds with shotguns, but was never a deer hunter and never into rifles. The last few years I found assault weapons interesting (went to military school) and have made a habit of purchasing AK47's.

The current political situation lends itself towards hoarding. There is legitimate concern that bans will come. Commodity prices pushed ammo from $0.18/round to $0.21. War provides scarcity of certain rounds which push them higher in price. Political concern has since pushed them to about $0.31/round. A considerable increase at the lowest ends of the cost spectrum. Some other rounds now go for near one dollar per round.

Motivations are wide spread; fear of banning, fear of civil meltdown, fear of occupation/marshall law. Some are unfounded conspiratorial theories. But the concern is there. I personally now have at least five weapons in the house and over 3000 rounds. I am hoarding more as an investment assuming bans and for what I view as the slight potential of societal meltdown.

In any case I know that I have them, and that their value may outstrip inflation or other commodity gains (gold). Protectionist/survivalist tendencies are an inherent inclination, and no longer for the camouflaged conspiracy theory back woods folk.

I try to avoid buying weapons which require governmental registration, as I prefer for the transaction to be entirely off the books. I pay cash for ammo. I tend toward AK47's because they are reliable and their ammunition is the most prominent in the world(behind 9mm). But in the states, I think perhaps holding NATO weapons and rounds would be most wise. If a meltdown arose those would be the most prevalent in this hemisphere I think. AK's are reliable, but the most common weapons on this side of the world are AR15's (.223, 5.56) and handguns which fire .40 caliber and 9mm. The idea of true conspiratorial groups is that Nato forces and Law enforcement would enforce any marshal law, and people would be forced to feed off of the ammunition they could reap from fighting off those forces.

Gun nuts are out of their minds.
The odds are 3:1 that you will end up shooting a friend or a relative.
When Peak Oil comes you will be more dependent on people you know than before. Guns reduce cooperation(except in mutual expressions of paranoia---'I'm okay but I'm not sure about you'.

Gun nuts are waiting for the Night of the Living Dead, when they can murder those (other) flesh-eating zombies with a clear conscience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Living_Dead

"They're us".[62] Romero confessed that the film was designed to reflect the tensions of the time: "It was 1968, man. Everybody had a 'message'. The anger and attitude and all that's there is just because it was the Sixties. We lived at the farmhouse, so we were always into raps about the implication and the meaning, so some of that crept in".[58]

Firearms are for the most part illegal to purchase or possess in Canada.
Everyone here is quite happy with this.
There is no single place in the country I would fear being.
The world should adopt this model.

Los Angeles county, outside the dense or down regions: It's pretty calm here. No real increase in aggressive tension that I've been able to detect, no violence outside the ordinary. People aren't shopping, they're spending less, nearly every conversation I hear on the buses is about money. If anything, there's less machismo and posturing, more grim calculation of where every dollar is going. I get stunned looks for being willing to loan someone even a single dollar, for which not even the beggars (who a year ago would ask for $10) would bother asking. People go far out of their way to find me a coupon for bread, insist on doing so in fact, when I didn't ask and would never have bothered. No-one is talking about the drought, despite warnings that we may face mandatory restrictions soon. They talk about money, about short hours, few jobs, and where to find the cheapest food. Bus ridership is way up. Lottery sales don't seem to have changed though.

What concerns me here at the moment isn't guns, it's mental health. I see people, once in a while, in conditions I wouldn't have seen them in before. Perhaps they ran out of money for medication, perhaps they are eating worse, or the stress got to them. I worry for people who try to conserve, but do it wrong, and in the process hoard or don't do something critical, like bathing.

Because you seem to have a genuine interest in what "the situation at the moment" is, let me lay it out for you. Most likely the view point I'm going to tell you is the same shared by people who are joining these gun clubs as a way of legally getting a pistol.

The world as a whole and most every local area are on the verge of radical change. This change will likely be a significant restructuring of society and the transition is going to be very uncertain and violent. Since you are on the oil drum you are aware of resource depletion and over population. This will lead to food shortages and starvation. Most people will kill others for food before they starve themself. The people who join your gun club so they can legally get a gun in Australia are aware of this and trying to prepare. They won't tell you specifically why they are preparing for fear of being seen as mentally unstable or unfit to own a gun, which would defeat their purpose of getting a gun.

Food shortages (even if only temporary) are just one danger. Another is overly aggressive government. The moves by most governments toward totalitarianism are becoming more and more apparent. The situation in the US is one where the government has tripled the police force in the last decade and is calling for accelerated expansion. Mass detention facilities are built and waiting. Constitutional rights which should protect us from government are being repudiated rapidly (4th, 5th, 2nd, 1st, 10th ammendments, posse comitatus, habeus corpus, and more). The government is being pushed into a situation where they have to default on promises to the people. Social security, Medicare and the dollar itself are in jeopardy due to long term over spending and under production. The near future holds the strong possibility that large numbers of people will be homeless, hungry and broke. Crime will be rampant. Even worse, the government response will to this crisis will see many people abused and destroyed (look at what happened during hurricane Katrina for a small preview of what is to come). Many people feel that they have a need to protect themselves from a government that may be about to turn tyrannical. Up to and including the use of deadly force against agents of said government. This is another reason people want to be armed. I don't know about Australia but the US was founded specifically with the intent of being armed and having the people overthrow the government by force of arms should it become an enemy to freedom and liberty. This is the spirit of the founding fathers, it is enshrined in our constitution very clearly and a good chunk of the population still feels this way.

In the US gun sales are higher than any time in history. It is only one component of being prepared for the coming crisis. Stored food and water are very important too. Solar panels area luxury. You are welcome to see these dangers as unrealistic, just as the majority of the population sees the concept of oil depletion as unrealistic and not something to worry about. What I have layed out is the mindset of people who are preparing by getting armed though.

Peak Oil?
Been there, Done that, got the T shirt.
Henry Kissinger managed to shut off the Oil to Rhodesia.
Instant collapse.
Mass emigration.
When I left I had people lining up for my dog.
I had an Oozi. (A useless fixed firing pin cheap thing).
I could not get rid of it.
I sent my friend to the armourer to sell it.
No go.
The armourer showed my friend the floor. It was 3 foot deep in weapons.
Africa is awash in weapons.
Thanks.
Well, you lot sold them.
You go get them back.

Here in Massachusetts, no gun mania. There is some renewed interest in hunting, (including on my part - I intend to go to hunting safety classes, get an appropriate firearm, and start, um, making the Commonwealth's roads safer, yes, that's the ticket) in time for the next season.

Lots of granola headed activity gearing up, though.

Here in Perth, Western Australia it is normal and quiet. I am completely and totally happy with the gun laws here in Australia. As ex-military myself I was appalled at the gun stupidness of most people here in rural areas that had rifles. Guns were under kids beds (I kid you not) and they knew where the ammo was stored. After just doing RAAF rookies and having gun safety drilled into me for eight hours per day it was only self restraint that prevented telling these people what I thought of their gun safety.

I do not have a weapon nor do I propose to obtain one. If the fertiliser hits the ventilator I intend to join a small local community and become an integral and valued member of a relocalised community which is the only true self defence. After all you can have all the guns you want however you have to sleep sometime. Societies are all about having people you trust to guard you when you sleep. At the moment I trust the police to keep me safe and they do a magnificent job. I also trust healthcare professionals to take care of me when you are sick and so on.

I may be a member of their armed militia or whatever they think they need in such a situation however I would then be subject to the same discipline that binds our armed forces together. Lone Rangers might look good on screen however I would not want to associate with such types as they would end up being the greatest danger.

I live in Melbourne, in a middle-class suburb. No one voluntarily brings up the subject of the recent change in "mood" of the economy, let alone truly serious issues such as peak-oil and climate change. When the economy finally comes up in conversation, the base assumption is that this is just another recession, it will pass and we will return to "business as usual". I don't know anyone personally who has lost their job, nearly everyone I know is in fact benefiting from low interest rates, lower petrol prices, tax cuts and stimulus payments. But the statistics shows us that car sales are down, with most of the rest of retail is holding up well here in Australia (so far). I know of people who have lost money in their share portfolio or super account, with the exception of one person I know, who has wisely gone into 100% cash, no one is selling, they are all hanging on for the long run, but don't log-in everyday to see how much things have gone down, because it is to painful to find out. To me there seems to be a total lack of consciousness in the world that surrounds these people, there is an extreme self-centredness in there own existence, i.e. the total opposite of community.

At some point in time, I'd say between 6-18 months unemployment will crank up to a level that will really be noticeable, and maybe the current unconscious middle-classes will start to wake up. The sad thing is that this rump of the population controls our government, they are the aspirationals whose votes are desperately targeted my the major political parties. Some of them will end up very angry and resentful, others will be more accepting and will act positively

Mood in suburb of Kansas City? My neighbor thinks things aren't so bad, most people he knows are just fine. People need to stop being so negative. Everyone needs to start buying things again, and we'd be okay... Jesus wept.

Firstly I must say, I LOVE MY GUNS.

It was not that difficult to get a 357 Magnum revolver licenced as my first gun last year. Nine very enjoyable months, once a week, at my local pistol club banging off fifty mini-orgasms in an hour. If your going to do something you need to be serious.

The club owners and therefore those who had to figure out if I was trustworthy / sane were very cautious about me for the first six months, possibly because of that old fashioned Tasmanian twinkle in my eyes that tells you what the sweetest flesh to eat is. But after several police checks they let me loose unattended with my beautiful baby and sent me off to the cop shop with a letter of approval a few months later.

Then the coppers went over my gun safe installation and house with a fine tooth comb. They desperately wanted to reject me I'm sure, but could find no reason. Relax folks, my name is not Martin Bryant and pork is not that sweet, you should be more concerned with being head butted by psychos full of booze and meth really.

My grandfather died when my father was 10 years old and dad had to feed a family of 8 with what he could get out of the bush. No surprise he bought me a rifle for my tenth birthday. We used to go hunting a lot and never came home with less than we could carry. Rabbitts, Roo, Parrot, Duck and a few other bits and pieces. Those were the days. Guns are usefull if you're hungry.

My initial motivation to revisit Guns after a 40 year break was the "remote possibility" that our social fabric might disintegrate within my lifetime, I was thinking decades ahead. Our social fabric is slowly disintegrating you know. I mentioned that to one of the range officers at my local club and he replied, "Just don't write that on your licence application". Most of the range officers are rifle owners that are active hunters as well as pistol buffs.

The way my house is securitised, I could have my guns ready to help me with section 244 of the WA criminal code in plenty of time. As to the perverse sugesstion that my dog would be better security: far too important a person to put at risk, the guns protect the dog. He is the best alarm system.

IF, and that's a big IF, we get to the stage of no food on the supermarket shelves, then matters could get real tricky, real quicky. I'll have lots of sweet meat to select from as per the Alexander Pierce Doctrine. Tasmanians keep meat fresh until the moment before consumption.

If I develop a really nasty degenerative illness, no need for a trip to Sweden for medical euthenasia, no trips to Mexico for barbituates, no slow and painful carbon monoxide in the sealed garage. Nope, BANG - all over.

Firearms and ammunition will (have) also increase(d) in value, and I'm thinking better than currency and equities in a world gone mad.

I have increased my armory with: 357 SIG semi auto pistol, 22 rimfire semi auto pistol, 22 rimfire rifle, 357 Mag lever action carbine. I'm looking at a 9mm semi auto pistol and a 12 gauge short double barell shotty at the moment. Then I want to move on to an open licence with a 270 hunting rifle and hopefully one day I can look at a Steyr Aug 5.6mm assult rifle, a 308 sniper, and a rotary mag combat shotgun on a collectors licence. Big plans for my retirement career.

I LOVE MY GUNS and as one famous Yankee said famously "From my cold dead hands".

I'm in a small country town in southern Victoria, Australia. Our economy has just taken a big hit due to the recent fires, one of which has burnt most of our adjacent national park, Wilsons Promontory. That's been on top of the downturn which we started to notice in our business about six months ago. But very few seem in the slightest bit concerned about the longer term.

I started talking about Peak Oil down here about a year ago and held a public meeting as an information session towards the end of last year. I got 25 locals along and they listened very politely. Some decide we should have a regular meeting to discuss PO and associated matters and I've had two meetings since with 10-12 attending, but they are hardly a cross-section of the community. Mostly old hippies!

I'm secretary of our local Chamber of Commerce and have attempted to talk about Peak Oil with members, particularly the two supermarket owners who are both very approachable intelligent people but nothing has come of it. I wrote to three of the local trucking companies and asked if they had any contingency plans for diesel price hikes/shortages (I was hoping they'd say they were looking at LNG fuel options) but got only one reply which was somewhat belligerent in tone ("I've been in the trucking business forty years: I know what I'm doing" sort of thing).

So basically it's BAU down here: nearly everyone thinks life will go on pretty much as it is. Even my wife thinks I'm a nutter, despite the fact that ABC Radio came down and spent a week making a documentary about me entitled "The Peakist" which goes to air on Radio National this weekend on "360" (the re-badged Radio Eye).

I've got a blog at http://southgippslandfutures.blogspot.com/ which I was hoping would become a place where locals would discuss the issues but I misunderstood the nature of the beast: lots of hits from overseas but hardly any from locals and virtually no comments.

So I think nothing will happen until the press of events is right upon us. The government is sharing the mad "let's stimulate" delusion of most world governments. Political commentary is almost all a beauty contest. I asked our local Federal member for a meeting next time he's in town because I need to know if anyone in Canberra has a clue: I've talked to him before about the issue but haven't followed up. I'm working with some clued in people on a local government committee which is working to strengthen public transport in the area. I'm also having some input into local government planning via a number of avenues. But until we reach a critical mass of people who understand the real issues (and talk about it just doesn't seem to achieve a thing), nothing much will change. And we are very vulnerable down here, with the economy largely dependent on export industry and being at the end of long diesel powered supply chains!

This is a very low crime area, with a long established local population and most newcomers being middle class or upper middle class professionals doing the Sea Change thing. Guns and Law and Order are not a topic: the crime column in the local paper is all drink-driving and chainsaws being stolen from sheds on bush blocks.

Nothing to report here, yet!

With all due respect, you Aussies should never have changed your gun laws.
You should have kept them the way they were.

In South Dakota the mood is a little edgy. We're not doing as poorly as other states in terms of unemployment - whatever the reason. But housing starts are way down, which in my attractive little retirement-and-growth based community is shocking. Even if it is a great relief to me. But it's idling a lot of construction workers.

A lot of people around here were nervous about Obama's election. Some aren't going to get over it but some will. I think that people are a little more willing to publicly spout hyperbole about things like the UN taking us over, even some elected officials. But this state is not known for balanced or nuanced political discourse.

Despite these indicators, most people I talk to assume that the Stimulus Package is going to Save The Economy and we'll get back to normal - for awhile. Because nobody seems willing to consider the evil C-word - Conservation.

However, something has created an opening in people's minds. A green group is starting up and it is getting support in the community. A member of the local Chamber of Commerce recently invited me to give my gloomy PO presentation to a meeting of business owners. If these people are willing to even consider my message, then they definitely have changed their position. To what I don't know, however.

I thought the price of cartridges was going up because of the rising prices of copper and all manufactured goods. I haven't tried to buy any since the election though.