It's the Ecology, Stupid

My next essay(s) will detail why our current crisis is manifesting in credit/finance, but has origins in and implications for energy, ecology and equity. I thought it would be helpful to first frame this situation from an academic perspective, by highlighting a recent Proceedings of National Academy of Sciences paper: "Overcoming Systemic Roadblocks to Sustainability: The Evolutionary Redesign of Worldviews, Institutions, and Technologies", written by a group of colleagues (professors and students) at the Gund Institute for Ecological Economics at the University of Vermont. It is a long paper but covers issues worthy of discussion - most notably an academic framework for averting collapse - a tall task. What say you? (Note: some of the authors may be reading/responding to comments, but it's finals week.)

Here is an introduction from lead author, Rachel Beddoe:

Humans are facing problems that are severe and unique in their scale and urgency, Peak Oil being just one of several. The current crises constitutes a “no-analog” period in that for the first time it’s possible for human activities to disrupt global energy and material cycles and for the first time there is a potential for declines across multiple highly interconnected societies. However, this isn’t the first time humans have faced a potential decline, as evidenced by the declines of past civilizations.

Though decline may be inevitable in some sense, what we can learn from history is that civilization declines aren’t simply a result of a brittle environment. Rather, decline is linked to a brittle “socio-ecological regime”, or the response a society is able to mount to ecological crises. Some civilizations have survived previous periods of resource constraints, so whether a society survives or doesn’t is more a result of their response to crisis. This suggests that we have choices. The question becomes, are we going to move through this period of resource constraint maladaptively and chaotically, or will we be deliberate and smart in our choices, thereby changing the course of our future? The paper attempts to provide a framework for cultural change based on what we know about biological and cultural evolution. This framework helps to de-mystify the idea of “collapse,” identifies the pitfalls of institutional “lock-in” and suggests “leverage points” from which to build a constructive response to crisis.

The Evolutionary Redesign of Worldviews, Institutions, and Technologies

The history of human-dominated socio-ecological systems is one of successive climbs to regional prominence followed by crises that were either successfully addressed, leading to sustainability, or not, leading to decline. Historical research demonstrates that crises leading to a society’s decline do not result from a single, easily identifiable cause with easily identifiable solutions (1–4). They usually result from the human-dominated ecosystem moving to a brittle, non-resilient state caused by internal changes or external forcings (2, 5, 6). For example, the earth’s climate has gone through natural and often abrupt variations, creating new conditions, persistent for decades and centuries, that were unfamiliar to the inhabitants of the time (5). Dramatic effects and societal decline, however, occur only when socioecological systems have become brittle and unable to adapt due to other causes (1–4), including deforestation and habitat destruction, soil degradation (erosion, salinization, and soil fertility losses), water management problems, overhunting, overfishing, effects of invasive alien species, human population growth, and increased per capita impact of people. Some ancient civilizations that were not able to adapt to climate change, leading to their demise, include:

- The Akkadian empire of Mesopotamia, where a shift to more arid conditions contributed to abrupt collapse about 6,180 years ago (7). Parts of low-latitude northeastern Africa and southwestern Asia, where severe drought caused major disruption about 4,300 years ago (8).

- The Tiwanaku civilization of the central Andes, where a prolonged period of drought led to collapse of the agricultural base about 1,000 years ago (5). Environmental problems also contributed to the decline of the Polynesians of Pitcairn Island, Easter Islanders, Mayans, Greenland Norse, Anasazi, Tang of Ancient China, and the Roman Empire (2–4).

Effectively adapting to potential collapse requires a thorough realignment of the way we view and interact with our surroundings—what has been called a socio-ecological ‘‘regime shift’’ (18).* A socio-ecological regime is a culture embedded in, and co-evolving with, its ecological context. ‘‘Regime’’ suggests a complete, interacting set of cultural and environmental factors that operate as a whole. When the ecological context changes so that the existing regime is no longer adaptive, societies must either identify and surmount the roadblocks confronting a regime shift or else become unsustainable and decline.

An Evolutionary Framework for Change

The Components of Culture

A culture can be viewed as an interdependent set of world views, institutions, and technologies (WIT). Worldviews are broadly defined as our perceptions of how the world works and what is possible, encompassing the relationship between society and the rest of nature, as well as what is desirable (the goals we pursue). Our worldview is unstated, deeply felt, and unquestioned. These unconscious assumptions about how the world works provide the boundary conditions within which institutions and technologies are designed to function. Institutions are broadly defined as a culture’s norms and rules (20), and include the key structures that are universal among all cultures: kinship, economy, religion, polity, governance, and education (21). These structures constrain individuals’ behavior, define a recognizable culture (18), and serve as problem-solving entities that allow societies to adapt to their environments(21–23). The institution of money, for example, emerged to solve the problem of unacceptably high transaction costs and limited liquidity in barter economies with a well-developed division of labor (21). Technologies are broadly defined as the applied information that we use to create human artifacts (in the example above, a printing press for money), as well as the institutional instruments used to help us meet our goals (in our current monetary system, a decision to lower interest rates).

Change as an Evolutionary Process

Cultural change is an evolutionary process (21, 24) acting on WITs. The evolution of cultures follows rules analogous to those governing the evolution of organisms, but they vary in their units of selection (cultural variants vs. genetic variants) and the method of transmission of successful variants to the next generation (learning vs. genes) (22). Individuals within populations display a variety of traits that relate to their social lifestyles, such as strategies of procuring food, interacting with others, etc. Multiple variants of each trait are possible and can be either conceptually driven (lifestyle choices based on personal preference), institutionally prescribed (belonging to a religion that forbids eating red meat), or enabled by new technology (the advent of petroleum-based travel changing the diets of Alaskan indigenous communities).

For any individual worldview, institution, or technology, there are many variants that a society may adopt, and each variant has its costs and benefits relative to local conditions and selection pressures. The frequencies with which each of these behavioral variants are seen in a population change over time in response to different selection pressures. Selection pressures include changing resource availabilities, environmental conditions, shifts in behavior of other key species or members of the population, and the frequencies of other linked trait variants. Variants that more favorably interact with the socio-ecological context generally increase in their frequency within the population, while those that are less favorable generally decrease in frequency. In this context, the frequencies of all cultural variants make up the culture.

Worldviews, institutions and technologies are mutually interdependent and mutually reinforcing. Although institutions are perhaps the chief traits upon which cultural selection acts (23), a specific worldview or set of worldviews will drive the institutions and technologies we develop by providing boundary conditions(20). For example, if our goal is to improve quality of life, we will develop institutions and technologies that promote that goal, whereas if our goal is endless economic growth, we will develop a different set of institutions and technologies. Conversely, our worldviews are reinforced by the rules our institutions set for us. For example, institutions such as education and the media play a critical role in shaping our worldview and set of goals. Technologies, in turn, have a powerful impact on institutions and worldviews. For example, technologies that allowed us to shift from dependence on the fixed flow of solar power to the stock of fossil fuels that we can extract and use as fast as we like has reinforced the worldview that economic growth can continue forever. A regime shift is not merely technological or programmatic in nature. It will do no good to set up new institutions to monitor pollution if we continue to develop technologies that create pollution, or if we continue to believe that ecosystems can be increasingly degraded without any repercussions. A regime shift cannot occur without changing worldviews, institutions, and technologies together, as an integrated system.

The desired outcome of selection on our WITs is to create a society that is adapted to its surroundings and situations (21) and provides for the wellbeing of its populations. However, it is possible for formerly adaptive WITs to become maladaptive. The ecological context can change, either because of exogenous conditions or through the effects of our institutions and technologies, and so cultures must re-adapt to changed surroundings in an ongoing coevolutionary process (25, 26), resulting in new socio-ecological regimes. Maladaptation occurs when WITs or variants of WITs become ‘‘locked-in.’’ Economic, technical, or political inertia, sunk costs, and other forces can prevent alternative WITs or WIT variants from being implemented (27–29). The result of a society locked-in to a maladaptive WIT is, potentially, a societal decline like those observed in many historical settings, as mentioned above.

These instances of large-scale, permanent societal decline have dramatic consequences, potentially involving voluntary or involuntary reductions in societal complexity, substantial reductions in population, and political disintegration or the reduction of controlled territory (1, 2, 6). Such radical negative socio-ecological regime shifts are often referred to as collapses (1, 2, 4, 30). In some cases, such as the recent example of the fall of the Soviet Union, regime shifts may only introduce temporary negative impacts, while in other more severe instances the resulting decline is permanent and leaves an open niche for another society to emerge and occupy (1, 2). Whether societal declines are permanent or temporary, their occurrence is the result of cultural selection acting within a cultural and environmental context (21).

Transition

To escape a situation of lock-in with multiple, reinforcing maladapted cultural variants, societies can foresee potential decline and develop other cultural variants, thereby allowing a positive regime shift, or one with merely temporary setbacks, thus changing the course of the future. One question inevitably emerges regarding the transition to an alternative socioecological regime: will it occur in a controlled, deliberate way that people will find socially acceptable or will it occur in an uncontrolled way that people perceive as harsh, difficult and severe? Put more bluntly, can the transition occur without societal collapse?

Crises are typically defined as a decisive moment or turning point. From an evolutionary standpoint, a period of cultural crisis is one where selection pressures are acting on worldviews, institutions, and technologies strongly enough that changes in WIT variants are required to alleviate the pressure. Given that cultural evolution will necessarily take place through the process of selection, passing through periods of crisis is a necessary part of the process. If we are to transition to a more sustainable society, we therefore cannot evade crisis. Indeed, when selection pressures become powerful enough to reshape society, it will appear to the adherents to the dominant WIT that their world is in a state of crisis. Such crises are best viewed as an opportunity to redesign a socio-ecological regime better adapted to the changing conditions.

Whether the transition can progress with or without decline or collapse is a separate issue. The key point is that cultural transitions involve the rise or fall of metrics that measure specific social elements, such as economic expenditures [i.e., gross domestic product (GDP)] or social complexity. Some of these metrics may well decline after a long period of increase. Declines in some metrics, such as per capita energy consumption, net energy, or social complexity, may be long term and permanent, whereas declines in other metrics may be temporary and rebound once societies adapt to their new realities. The rise and fall of these metrics is not necessarily good or bad for a society, so long as the society is able to adapt its WITs to the changing conditions so that individuals within the society are able to meet their needs throughout the transition.

Although the promise of crisis as a part of cultural transition may seem pessimistic, the transitional process itself need not be difficult. As human beings, we have an awareness of our WITs that other social animals lack, and thus have the potential to study the different variants of these WITs, to make educated guesses as to which variants may serve us better as circumstances change, and to adopt policies that will allow us to transition to these more adaptive institutional variants before the process of cultural selection forces us to. This amounts, in effect, to designing our way through the process of cultural evolution(31, 32). Although we will not avoid every pitfall, taking a proactive approach toward the needed institutional adaptations can reduce the negative impacts cultural transitions and thus make it rewarding (even though it may require transitions). Perhaps the best analogy is with breaking an addiction. A crisis is often required to allow the addicted individual to see and to acknowledge the addiction, and the transition to a post addiction state can be quite traumatic. However with proper knowledge of the process and with care and foresight, the transition can be both relatively smooth and highly rewarding.

‘‘Empty’’ World WIT: Our Current Regime

Our current socio-ecological regime is founded on a worldview that emerged during a period—the early Industrial Revolution—when the world was still relatively empty of humans and their built infrastructure (33). Natural resources were abundant, social settlements were sparser, and inadequate access to infrastructure and consumer goods represented the main limit on improvements to human well-being. This set of circumstances has been called an ‘‘empty’’ world (34). In an empty world, it made sense to ignore relatively abundant ecosystem goods and services, and to favor the concentration of wealth in the hands of the few so that it could be invested and focus solely on increasing the consumption of market goods and services, which were relatively scarce. If wealth had to be concentrated in the hands of the few where it would be invested to fuel future growth, rather than distributed to the many where it would be consumed at the cost of growth, this was a sacrifice the present had to make for the future.

Our current worldview of what is desirable and what is possible was obviously forged in this empty world context. For example, ‘‘recession,’’ our word for economic decline, is defined as two or more consecutive quarters in which the GDP does not grow. Unending physical growth of the economy is only possible within a system unconstrained by any biophysical limits. Our current institutional and technical approach is also an extension of a long-term trend of adaptation to an empty world. Western society has increasingly favored the institutions that promote the private sector over the public sector, capital accumulation by the few over asset building by the many (35, 36), and finance over the production of real goods and services.

Steady decline in median income and marginal tax rates have reduced funding available to spend on public goods while simultaneously contributing to rising income disparity. Technologies are generally designed to maximize the throughput of energy and resources while minimizing monetary and labor costs, with little consideration of future generations. For example, because they are energy dense and bountiful, fossil fuels became the dominant form of energy used by our society, even though they are polluting and nonrenewable.

Fossil fuels have provided the abundant energy necessary for economic growth, and have helped us overcome numerous resource constraints. For example, fertilizers, pesticides, and mechanized agriculture have allowed us to stave off Malthus’ predictions. As a result of our success, however, the world has changed dramatically over the past two centuries. We now live in a ‘‘full’’ world, a world relatively full of humans and their built infrastructure. The human footprint has grown so large that, in many cases, limits on the availability of natural resources now constrain real progress more than limits on capital infrastructure. Increasingly complex technologies and institutions, increasing resource constraints, and more expensive energy inputs have made our system more brittle and hence more susceptible to collapse (37).

‘‘Full’’ World Scenario: A Regime Under Stress

Our current WITs are failing to meet our needs in a changing world. Anthropogenic climate change, peak oil, biodiversity loss, rising food prices, pandemics, ozone depletion, pollution, and the loss of other life-sustaining ecosystem services all pose serious threats to civilization. These crises can be traced back to one, albeit complex problem: we have failed to adapt our current socioecological regime from an empty world to a full world. The aspects of our regime that no longer serve us in a full world can be grouped under two interrelated themes: a belief in unlimited growth, and a growing and unsustainable complexity.

Unlimited Increases in Resource and Energy Throughput Are Physically Impossible on a Finite Planet

An empty world may seem unlimited, but the physical reality of the world we live in is limited and resource constrained. As we continue to grow, the laws of thermodynamics become more apparent. The first law of thermodynamics tells us that we cannot make something from nothing. All economic production requires the transformation of raw materials provided by nature. If not used in human production, these raw materials would otherwise serve as the structural building blocks of ecosystems. Structure generates function, and the ecosystem functions that we lose when these building blocks are consumed include vital life support services without which no species can survive. The global climate crisis is an example of an ecosystem service being consumed at a rate unsustainable by the surrounding ecosystem—Earth.

The first law also tells us that the energy required to do work cannot be created or destroyed. The use of fossil fuels not only creates waste emissions that further degrade ecosystem function but also depletes a nonrenewable resource. Dependence on a single, nonrenewable unstable international relations, economic uncertainty, and dangerous resource conflicts. Technology cannot create energy out of nothing. Although the development of alternative energy sources is a priority, no currently feasible alternative can sustain the current rate of global economic growth. In the absence of a miraculous source of unlimited energy, our worldview that unlimited and/or exponential physical growth is possible for the real economy as a whole is simply incorrect. However, qualitative improvements that generate more economic welfare from fewer resource inputs may be possible. Ecological economists have been making these points for decades (38–40), and in recent years even conventional economists have begun to question both the rationality and the potential for continued growth (35).

Unlimited Increases in Resource and Energy Throughput Do Not Continue to Increase Well-Being

Unlimited economic growth is not only impossible, it is undesirable. GDP actually measures costs, not benefits, as illustrated by recent declines in the supply of energy and food that have sent their prices and share in GDP skyrocketing even as the benefits they generate decline. An indicator of welfare should instead measure years of satisfying life, encompassing both quality and quantity. GDP does belong in indicators of economic efficiency, but only in the denominator. The more efficient we are, the less economic activity, raw materials, energy, and work it requires to provide satisfying lives. Real efficiency reduces environmental impacts and increases leisure time. As a major cost of providing satisfying lives, GDP does frequently move in parallel with welfare. In the same way countries that spend more on medical care tend to have better indicators of health. However, concluding that we should therefore maximize medical expenditures, a cost, is absurd. When GDP rises faster than life satisfaction, efficiency declines. Our goal should be to minimize GDP, subject to maintaining a high and sustainable quality of life. The real problem with recession is not that it decreases GDP but that it undermines quality of life by increasing unemployment, poverty, and suffering.

In 1969, the United States came to the end of a four-decade decline in income inequality and poverty. People then consumed about half as much per capita as they do today (39). The genuine progress indicator (GPI), a measure of welfare designed to adjust for the inadequacies of GDP, was nearing its per capita peak and has since stagnated (41). Subjective measures of well-being such as the percentage of people who consider themselves ‘‘very happy’’ have steadily declined since then (42). Empirical evidence therefore suggests that a return to 1969 per capita consumption levels would not make us worse off. On the contrary, returning to 1969 consumption levels would presumably lower our resource depletion, energy use, and ecological impacts by half, so there is every reason to believe that dramatically lowering our per capita consumption could actually make us better off.

Our Institutions Are Designed to Maximize Energy and Resource Throughput and Are Poorly Adapted to the Needs of a Full World

Market institutions

Market institutions are geared toward economic growth and provide only private goods at the expense of public goods. In the 1950s, before the biophysical limits of a full world were a concern, John Kenneth Galbraith argued that society was too focused on the market provision of private goods and neglected public goods such as education, infrastructure, public health, and so on that would best improve quality of life. Today, not only do we recognize the importance of public goods provided by nature, but we know that the production of market goods inevitably degrades them.

Many governments worldwide have long-standing policies that promote growth in market goods at the expense of non-market public goods generated by healthy ecosystems.† These include (i) over $2 trillion in annual subsidies for market activities and externalities that degrade the environment (i.e., perverse subsidies) (43); (ii) reduced protection or privatization of the commons (44); and (iii) inadequate regulations and inadequate enforcement of existing regulations against environmental externalities(45).

A good or service is rival if one person’s benefiting from it prevents others from also benefiting. A good or service is excludable if it is possible to exclude people from benefiting. Marketed goods and services are, in general, rival and excludable, whereas nonmarketed public goods and services are nonrival and nonexcludable.

Economies have weathered innumerable financial crises. However, the current financial crisis pales in comparison to the biophysical crisis. Yet these more critical crises are pushed off the front page by the financial crisis and the dominant worldview of continued economic growth and consumption. Not only do our current institutions and instruments fail to address the real crisis, they accomplish mutually reinforcing goals that move us in the wrong direction. No attention is given to the relationship between the biophysical crises and the market economy, although continuous economic growth in the wealthy countries is actually a major cause of the biophysical crises (46).

International trade institutions

International trade institutions are competitive, not cooperative. Global climate stability and ecological resilience provided by biodiversity are clearly global public goods requiring cooperative global solutions, whereas fossil fuels are rival and excludable market goods promoting competition and resource struggles. Sustainability demands new energy sources that are nonrival and nonexcludable. For example, if the United States develops inexpensive and efficient solar power, our use of it will not leave any fewer photons for China or India to use. However, international trade institutions such as the World Trade Organization (WTO) prioritize private market goods and services at the expense of public goods.

Privatizing knowledge

As a final example closely related to the previous point, institutions governing knowledge are
competitive, not cooperative. Whether new sources of energy are fusion, solar, wind or geothermal, the limiting factor is knowledge. Knowledge, which actually improves with use, is the ultimate nonrival resource. In the example above, not only would China’s adoption of solar technology not limit the use of it by the United States (barring serious constraints on resource inputs), China would most likely improve the technology thus conferring benefits to other users. However, if we use patents and prices (protected by the WTO) to ration use, other countries may not be able to afford the technology, and if they continue to burn coal, the technology will do nothing to solve climate change. Only nonexcludable, open-access information will solve the problem. For example, existing patents on nonozone-depleting compounds drive up their costs, leading India and China to favor ozone depleting hydrochlorofluorocarbons which generated the worst ozone hole in history in 2006 (http://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/monthly/index.html). When Indonesia sells a strain of avian flu virus to one corporation rather than let hundreds work on a vaccine, the chance of finding a vaccine decreases (47). When a corporation patents a vaccine and rations its use to those who can afford it, the pool of uninoculated will be too large to prevent a pandemic.

Television is a good example of a technology gone awry in the hands of the market. Television has become the most accessible source of information in history, but overall it has reduced information transfer among the population. Instead of promoting two-way communication, it broadcasts information to the audience, with limited means for the audience to respond. ‘‘Individuals receive, but they cannot send. They absorb, but they cannot share. They hear, but they do not speak. They see constant motion, but they do not move themselves.’’ (48)

Television uses a financial model relying on advertising revenue. However, this advertisement has also ushered in and sustained a culture of consumerism and materialism (49). It has brought national brands into the forefront of consumer consciousness, creating great inelasticity by presenting the belief that there are few substitutes for a given brand (50). It has also magnified in the public mind problems that in reality are minor, such as gingivitis, athlete’s foot, or bad breath (51). Other countries have different approaches to broadcasting, but ‘‘the ‘have-not’ nations stand practically defenseless before a rampaging Western commercialism’’ (52).

Political advertisements have also been used to sway the populace in elections. Studies have found that candidates can receive a vote for approximately every $10 they spend (53, 54). This creates a system of ‘‘one dollar, one vote,’’ which is the definition of a plutocracy, not a democracy.

Envisioning a New Regime

Regime shifts can be driven by collapse or by integrated worldview, institutional, and technological changes. New cultural variants can be developed to offer new goals, rules, and tools. These new variants provide the opportunity to transition away from unsustainable practices and to avoid social, economic, and ecological collapse. Below we provide a partial list of worldviews, institutions,and technologies to stimulate and seed this evolutionary change.

Redefine Well-Being Metrics

In any new context, we first have to remember that the goal of an economy is to sustainably improve human well-being and quality of life. Material consumption and GDP are merely means to that end, not ends in themselves. We have to recognize, as both ancient wisdom and new psychological research tell us, that material consumption beyond real need can actually reduce overall well-being. Such a reorientation leads to specific tasks. We have to identify what really does contribute to human well-being, and recognize and gauge the substantial contributions of natural and social capital, both of which are coming under increasing stress. We have to be able to distinguish between real poverty in terms of low quality of life versus merely low monetary income. Ultimately we have to create a new vision of what the economy is and what it is for, and a new model of development that acknowledges the new full-world context (33).

Ensure the Well-Being of Populations During the Transition

We must ensure that reductions in economic output and consumption fall on those with the lowest marginal utility of consumption, the wealthy. Presently, the U.S. tax code taxes the third wealthiest man in the world, Warren Buffett, at 17.7%, while his receptionist is taxed at the average rate of 30%. And as Buffett said, ‘‘I don’t have a tax shelter’’ (55). Recognizing that never-ending exponential material growth of the economy is impossible, we must shift our worldview to one that understands that our economy is sustained and contained by the finite global ecosystem (although qualitative development may continue indefinitely). In fact, existing levels of physical economic output and consumption are already unsustainable and should be reduced.

Reduce Complexity and Increase Resilience

Efforts to create new cultural/institutional variants can benefit from the lessons offered by history, particularly cases of successful adaptation. For example, to say that ancient societies were overwhelmed by environmental change alone, naturally or artificially created, is an overly simplistic explanation. Although environmental factors contribute to decline, equally important are the decisions made during the crises. A society’s responses depend on the ability of its political, economic, and social institutions to respond, as well as on its cultural values (2). Civilizations that go into a state of decline often do so after unwise choices in the face of stress (30). These choices are made because of an absence of appropriate understanding of the situation or of institutions to mount a flexible response. Cultures become too locked-in to adapt to a changing environment (27); the ruling polity fails to establish institutions to respond to the crises; and decline occurs.

Institutional resiliency and adaptability can offer a society the chance to avoid decline. In the case of social systems, resilience depends to a certain extent on the capacity of human societies to adapt and to continue functioning in the face of stress and shocks (56). One key element of institutional variants that determines their relative usefulness is the level of societal complexity required to maintain them (23). Some institutional variants are relatively simple and require little social bureaucracy and energy investment, whereas other institutional variants are quite complex and require a substantial social bureaucracy and energy investment (1, 22). Societal complexity carries a substantial cost in energy and resource terms, and voluntary reductions in societal complexity can allow cultures to persevere in times of scarce resources (22). Tainter noted that, historically, favoring the simpler variant increased society’s chances of surviving during times of decreased energy surplus, since the energy subsidy necessary for the more complex variant was not available. In times when a higher energy subsidy is available, such as has recently been the case with our use of fossil fuels, the benefits that the more complex option offers can outweigh its additional costs. Successful historical cases in which decline did not occur include the following:

- Tikopia Islanders have maintained a sustainable food supply, and a convenient but stable and nonincreasing population with a bottom-up social organization (2).

- New Guinea features a silviculture system more than 7,000 years old with
an extremely democratic, bottom-up decision-making structure (2).

- Japan’s top-down forest policies in the Tokugawa-era arose as a response to an environmental and population crisis, bringing peace and prosperity (2).

- The Moche civilization in northern Peru suffered about 30 years of drought in the late 6th century AD and then severe flooding that destroyed the capital, the fields, and the irrigation system, causing widespread famines. The capital city was moved after the flooding and new, adaptive agricultural and architectural technologies were implemented (5).

Expand the ‘‘Commons Sector.’’

Recognizing that we are in a biophysical crisis because of our over-consumption and lack of protection of ecosystem services, we must invest in institutions and the technologies required to reduce the impact of the market economy and to preserve and protect public goods. It is now time to create another major category of institution, the commons sector, which would be responsible for managing existing common assets and for creating new ones. Some assets should be held in common because it is more just; these include resources created by nature or by society as a whole. Others should be held in common because it is more efficient; these include non-rival resources for which price rationing creates artificial shortages (information), or rival resources that generate non-rival benefits, such as ecosystem structure (forests). Others should be held in common because it is more sustainable; these include essential common pool resources and public goods.

Barnes (44) suggests that effective institutions for managing the commons sector are common asset trusts at various scales. Trusts can propertize the commons without privatizing them. The Alaska Permanent Fund is one frequently cited example, along with the many land trusts currently in existence. Common asset trusts could protect and restore critical natural capital—those resources provided by nature that are in some way essential to human well-being. Common asset trusts can also generate information and technologies that can protect or enhance public goods. Examples of this include low pollution energy sources, non-ozone-depleting refrigerants, organic agriculture, erosion- and drought-resistant agriculture (e.g., perennial grains), alternatives to trawl fishing, devices that reduce by-catch in fisheries, and so on. All such information should be freely available for whoever chooses to use it.

Remove Barriers to Improving Knowledge and Technology

With the invention of television, political advertisements became a critical outlet for candidates to broadcast their message and to sway voters. However, the decentralized nature of the Internet ‘‘allows citizens to gain knowledge about what is done in their name, just as politicians can find out more about those they claim to represent’’ (57). As a means of two-way communication, the Internet provides voters the ability to speak out within their government without leaving their homes. For the Internet to transform the idea of electronic democracy, universal access is critical. Currently technological, financial, and social barriers exist to such universal accessibility (57). Removal of these barriers thus becomes a major goal for replacement of the current plutocracy with real democracy. Unlike television, very low technological and financial barriers exist to establishing a presence on the internet. This has the effect of decentralizing information production, and returns control of the distribution of information to the audience, providing a venue for dialogue instead of monologue. Opinions and services previously controlled by small groups or corporations are now shaped by the entire population. Television news networks, sitcoms, and Hollywood productions are being replaced by e-mail, Wikipedia, YouTube, and millions of blogs and forums, all created by the same billions of people.

CONCLUSIONS

Changes in our current interconnected worldviews, institutions, and technologies (our socio-ecological regime) are needed to achieve a lifestyle better adapted to current and future environmental realities. This transition, like all cultural transitions, will be evolutionary. Cultural selection will, with feedback from other institutions and environmental factors, exert pressure favoring institutional variants that are better adapted to current circumstances, while at the same time exerting pressure away from those variants that are less adaptive. Assuming that our society can overcome path dependence and can avoid becoming locked-in to maladaptive institutions, the process of cultural evolution will push our society toward the adoption of institutions that best suit the new circumstances. That being said, a major unique feature of cultural evolution is that it is ‘‘reflexive’’ in the sense that our cultural goals affect the process. To a certain extent, we can design the future that we want by creating new cultural variants for evolution to act upon and by modifying the goals that drive cultural selection. If our societal goals shift from maximizing growth of the market economy to maximizing sustainable human well-being, different institutions will be better adapted to achieve these goals.

As we learn more about the process of cultural evolution, we can better anticipate the required changes and can more efficiently design new institutional variants for selection to work on. We have outlined what a few of these variants might look like, but the task is huge and will take a concerted and sustained effort if we hope to make the transition a relatively smooth one. It will require a whole systems approach at multiple scales in space and time. It will require integrated, systems-level redesign of our entire socio-ecological regime, focused explicitly and directly on the goal of sustainable quality of life rather than the proxy of unlimited material growth. It must acknowledge physical limits, the nature of complex systems, a realistic view of human behavior and well-being, the critical role of natural and social capital, and the irreducible uncertainty surrounding these issues. It is also important to recognize, however,that a transition will occur in any case, and that it will almost certainly be driven by crises. Whether these crises lead to decline or collapse followed by ultimate rebuilding, or to a relatively smooth transition depends on our ability to anticipate the required changes and to develop new institutions that are better adapted to those conditions.

AUTHORS:
Rachael Beddoe, Robert Costanza, Joshua Farley, Eric Garza, Jennifer Kent, Ida Kubiszewski, Luz Martinez, Tracy McCowen, Kathleen Murphy, Norman Myers, Zach Ogden, Kevin Stapleton, and John Woodward

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Rachael,
Is the main point that GDP is a poor indicator of human well being and that a human development index or genuine progress indicator(GPI) should be used?

So are you comfortable in growth in GPI but not growth in GDP? or are you just not happy with GDP components that are not sustainable, such as growth in FF use. In other words growth in renewable energy, more novels, movies, art, more valuable manufactured goods if they use less materials than the ones they replace?

What about GDP per capita growing say at 3% pa while population and FF use declines say 3%pa?

Your statement about first law of thermodynamics doesn't apply because the earth is not a closed system, receives sunlight which provides energy, providing we do not exceed this energy input.

While you are correct that the earth is not a closed system, it is for all practical purposes (barring impacts with asteriods etc) a closed system from the perspective of matter. Despite the theoretical equivalence of energy and matter, it is quite another thing to convert energy (say photons) to matter (say phosphorous).

From Wikipedia:
"The first law of thermodynamics, an expression of the principle of conservation of energy, states that energy can be transformed (changed from one form to another), but it can neither be created nor destroyed"

For practical purposes the earth is not limited for energy due to the daily arrival of energy from the sun. take away the argument that we are limited by energy then few other limitations at present, sure will have to use lower grade ores, that takes more energy, but while we use in one year the energy arriving in 1hour from the sun, seems like we have a long way to go before we run out of any "matter".

For practical purposes the earth is not limited for energy due to the daily arrival of energy from the sun. take away the argument that we are limited by energy then few other limitations at present, sure will have to use lower grade ores, that takes more energy, but while we use in one year the energy arriving in 1hour from the sun, seems like we have a long way to go before we run out of any "matter".

"For practical purposes"? Surely you mean "in theory". For all practical purposes sun's energy falling on earth cannot be used to significantly increase the availability of diminishing resources on earth.

  • Earth is a very large target and the amount of energy falling on any actual practical area is very small.

  • Further that energy is spread out on a wide band of EM spectrum and the efficiency of capturing it and converting it to heat or electricity is limited by known physics.

  • More so it is limited by the infrastructure required to capture, convert and transport it (as well as store it to load balance it).

  • The infrastructure in turn is limited by our ability to invest time, matter and energy on such a massive effort to build it and maintain it.

So, the availablity of energy (from the sun at least) is very much an argument about the limitation of availability of matter.

Now, to use any source of 'unlimited' energy then to try to increase the availability of matter (meaning increasing the flow rate in a world of diminishing resources and ore grades, since as has been pointed out, you cannot convert energy into matter in practice) would require the electrification of the whole process of mining, refining and transporting of ore.

The efficiency and extent with which you can try to increase the flow rate from lower grade ores is limited by laws of diminishing returns, unreplaceability and practical engineering limitations: making digging and transporting machines larger than they already are - making larger pools of process sludge than before (limited by water and chemical availability) - and how much process waste you can dump on the surrounding environment per lump of refined material - it's not exactly a 1 to 1 equation: you can try spending 10 times more energy on the whole thing - but still end up with marginal results.

In the end all your investments into 'unlimited energy' have actually been an enormously wasteful exercise producing only a marginal increasing in resource availability.

Systems thinking is nice - but in the real world only what you can do with real world engineering counts!

ransu,

"Earth is a very large target and the amount of energy falling on any actual practical area is very small."

the average energy from sunlight is about 5kWh/day per meter^2. That sounds like a lot of energy to me.
http://zebu.uoregon.edu/disted/ph162/l4.html
So a typical house roof receives 450 KWh/day allowing for 20% efficiency that's 90KWH/day. So just the roof area( not being used for anything else) could provide all of the electricity required by the highest electricity consuming nations. Then you have the back yard, vacant lots, parking lots, .... deserts which have about 50% more solar radiation.
20% capture is more than enough, solar heat would be more than that.

"More so it is limited by the infrastructure required to capture, convert and transport it (as well as store it to load balance it)".

Some energy is captured by plants, electricity can be stored by pumped hydro, CSP can store heat , most energy demand is in the daytime.
The infrastructure is beginning to be built now, we don't need solar today, we can manage for next 20 years using wind, hydro, nuclear and FF.

would require the electrification of the whole process of mining, refining and transporting of ore.

No problem with electrifying mines( many are already), transport by electric rail, electricity is used now for refining many metals(magnesium, aluminium. No technical problems here.

"In the end all your investments into 'unlimited energy' have actually been an enormously wasteful exercise producing only a marginal increasing in resource availability."

North America now gets 18% of its electrical power from nuclear and 18% from hydro and 2% from wind; none of these investments could be described as "wasted" unless you see no value in electricity. All done by "real world engineering", or am I imagining that the lights go on when I flip a switch.

Some energy is captured by plants, electricity can be stored by pumped hydro, CSP can store heat , most energy demand is in the daytime.
The infrastructure is beginning to be built now, we don't need solar today, we can manage for next 20 years using wind, hydro, nuclear and FF.

What infrastructure being built? Where and how much? Please provide data here on TOD. Or perhaps you just think it is - based on anecdotes. No significant potential exists in pumped hydro (it has been discussed here on TOD). The infrastructure required for transporting and storage of significant wind and/or solar component in the grid isn't being built! And we cannot 'manage' with the next 20 years with wind, hydro, nuclear, FF, while making enormous investments into solar energy - we have trouble servicing the rest of our infrastructure with the energy there is left - and will have no capital for expensive luxuries like solar - see discussion on energy for the past several years here on TOD...

the average energy from sunlight is about 5kWh/day per meter^2. That sounds like a lot of energy to me. So a typical house roof receives 450 KWh/day allowing for 20% efficiency that's 90KWH/day. So just the roof area( not being used for anything else) could provide all of the electricity required by the highest electricity consuming nations. Then you have the back yard, vacant lots, parking lots, .... deserts which have about 50% more solar radiation.
20% capture is more than enough, solar heat would be more than that.

Hey, nobody is arguing with you about the 'niceness' of putting some panels on your roof. We are talking about increasing resource (matter) availability - not having more useless electricity for your flat screen tv. Solar does not replace liquid fuels, oil, with which the whole infrastructure functions (and don't even start about hydrogen economy - its been discussed to death here on TOD many times).

The amount of sunlight you can capture and convert to electricity or heat per sq meter might sound much to you if you are fixing some panels on your roof - but its feeble compared to the energy density of FF - huge areas have to be covered with panels, conversion, load balancing and transporting need enormous investments in infrastructure - investments in materials and capital, which we don't have!

And mainly because its not worth it! Having a bit more electricity isn't that important - you cannot get any more metals off the ground with it - you cannot use it to transport anything physical - and you cannot make food with it (all fertilizers and pesticides are made, processed and transported with FF). More electricity is nice but it doesn’t solve the problem - and it certainly doesn’t justify the unlimited investments to it...

No problem with electrifying mines( many are already), transport by electric rail, electricity is used now for refining many metals(magnesium, aluminium. No technical problems here.

Exactly, they are already mainly electric. How are you going to increase the flow rate? Make the conveyors go faster? Open the electricity valve more so that the machines make more stuff? Do you think electricity use is a limiting factor in mining operations currently? It’s not. Making them bigger, more complicated is the limiting factor. They are already big, the biggest machines we have ever made. That's real world engineering. If you have some suggesting of how to actually use more electricity in the process, then please do make a specific suggestion that one can evaluate in engineering terms. Just claiming one can increase production by hosing the process with more power is naive. Electricity is cheap, almost free, in many countries with major mining operations - it is not a limiting factor - something else is - real world limits (capital expenditure, material physics, laws of physics) - otherwise mining industry would've done the magic already.

And the thing is - it doesn't scale! Sure they are making bigger dump trucks every year - but they aren't twice as big as the last ones - in order to seriously go after the low grade ores, you would have to device a way to SCALE the whole process - at least in some significant increments like x2. Why do you think they haven't done it already? As I said - there are limits to the size of the masses you can exploit and process in one go - physical limits - which are HARD to extend - they require real world engineering solutions - not just more of something (power, oil, men).

"In the end all your investments into 'unlimited energy' have actually been an enormously wasteful exercise producing only a marginal increasing in resource availability."

North America now gets 18% of its electrical power from nuclear and 18% from hydro and 2% from wind; none of these investments could be described as "wasted" unless you see no value in electricity. All done by "real world engineering", or am I imagining that the lights go on when I flip a switch.

Nice way to weasel out of the argument, claiming I meant something else and arguing that - its called a straw man argument. Using virtually free energy, in increasing the flow rate of mining of metals, is by definition a wasteful effort. We already waste enormous amounts of energy in inefficient processes. Making a sludge pool bigger or adding more heating with your free power provides marginal benefits, compared to lets say developing a new catalyst which multiplies the production efficiency.

Flip of a switch, yes. But even then you are wrong. You see if more cheaper energy WAS such a big deal, not just in mining but everything else (some processes and industries it is the limiting factor) than we should be seeing a massive effort in investing in new power plants everywhere? If having more power available is so significant, why isn’t every effort and expense being made to make more power? Could it be that there are other limiting factors, which I have already stated - capital, distribution, load balancing - and in fact, hasn't this been already done: so many power plants already built that building more would only have a marginal effect - the law of diminishing returns at work!

And the thing is, your solar power isn't free - its not even cheap - its more expensive than any other (common) form electricity generation (except mayby nuclear) - we're only talking about it because its supposedly 'sustainable' - but for our impoverished and crippled civilization, clinging onto the last rays of the sundown in the horizon of our own making - its too late - we've built dependance on massive but fragile systems which have physical limits that cannot be replaced with another system overnight (just like you cannot just replace all internal combustion engines overnight) - perhaps we should've started investing in it during the 70's maybe - then would've had the time and resources for it, maybe...

Your statement about first law of thermodynamics doesn't apply because the earth is not a closed system, receives sunlight which provides energy, providing we do not exceed this energy input.

As I remember it, a closed thermodynamic system is one that does not exchange MASS with it's surroundings and open if it does. At the level of exchange we are talking about (a few satellites here, the odd comet there; versus the mass of the planet) I think we can safely analyze it as a closed system.

In an ADIABATIC system, heat is not exchanged with the surroundings.

An ISOLATED system exchanges neither heat nor mass with the surroundings.

Technically, Earth is a diathermic system. Earth does exchange energy with its surroundings as heat (energy) is radiated into space. However, as you correctly point out, Earth does not exchange mass with its surroundings.

The truth is that it does not matter a whole lot about what KIND OF SYSTEM Earth is. What matters is a little thing called equilibrium. The burning of fossil fuels is upsetting the thermal/environmental equilibrium that previous generations were used to. Before humans numbered into the millions/billions, the temperature/environmental conditions of Earth changed abruptly only when something like several volcanoes erupted, solar flares increased the radiation flux, meteors struck Earth, or some other very punctuated event occurred. Earth reached an equilibrium after events like these because they were often few and far between. When man started populating the earth in large numbers, burning fossil fuels, and destroying plants that sequestered the incoming solar radiation, Earth was slowly poisoned and could not recover, in the same way that Hanson's disease slowly spreads though the human body or in the same way mercury or arsenic build up until death. Mankind is simply overwhelming the natural tendency of Earth to equilibrate to conditions that support man and other forms of life.

Earth has got a fever of sorts. Just as a fever to a person is a response to an invasion of disease, global warming is a response to infection from humanity. The fever of Earth will only break when the infection is finally subdued through natural disasters (e.g., drought, starvation, tornadoes, earthquakes, or disease)...unless mankind kills it first.

yeah, I know, I cut the diathermic line by accident in my edit and didn't realize until now...

Hm, hate to be so blunt, but we all know what's blocking efforts to adapt: global capitalism. The things that need to be done are in conflict with the profit motive. Capitalism needs growth. The planet (as a home for us) needs us to shrink and lighten our imprint.

Now one could point to the Soviet Union and say: that model didn't work either. And it's true, even had the Soviet model of socialism been far more attractive, it too could not have continued. There's no hope for any version of the industrialized utopia Marx envisioned.

We come to Cuba. Cuba is no utopia. But it has been able to at least address some of the ecological and resource issues that are now confronting the world. And at least part of the reason lies in the fact that they are not obliged to maximize profits.

There is no one model for the future. We'll have to wing it. But we can't allow the wings to be clipped in advance by the profit motive. That's not the same as doing away with the market and profits -- but it means we need an order where these things cannot trump everything else, as they do now.

So one can talk about culture all one wants, but there is an elephant in the room that is at least deserving of mention.

Dave
Capitalism needs growth. The planet (as a home for us) needs us to shrink and lighten our imprint.

Capitalism needs profits on deployed capital. One way is growth, another is to displace older technologies, for example replacing railway and airline travel with the internet.

Microsoft makes lots of profits, what do they produce, small plastic CD's with small pits burnt into them. Compare this with the resources used by displaced paper based manuals, catalogs, telephone directories.

Growth only causes a heavier "imprint" if it actually uses more non-renewable resources.

Microsoft is very much dependent on the growth of the capitalist world economy as a whole, including its material infrastructure. The so-called information economy is a myth. What is all the information about? It's ultimately about keeping track of material matters and the financial superstructure that sits atop it. Without growth in this very material global economy Microsoft has no place to go. And the global industrial economy is not going to grow -- it can't, not much. It will shink.

Modern capitalism has evolved a vast and grossly parasitic overgrowth of bureaucracy, corporate and gov't. MS and other software giants mostly serve this cancerous bloat on the body politic.

Think about what the jobs have been. Finance, real estate, marketing, insurance, law. Even medicine is more about paper pushing than medicine. True, we still have the "defense" industry. We have actually significantly de-industrialized already, but in the wrong direction! We no longer produce anything (much) of real value.

We need to de-industrialize in a planned way in the other direction, that is toward localized, dense, sustainable, carless, mostly self-sufficient agriculturally based communities. I hope we are able to maintain a global electronic commons in that new era.

But even on narrower grounds, the trees didn't really begin to cry buckets until the computer came along. I was (and still am I suppose in some sense) a computer guy. The computer revolution is more than fifty years old and has yet to deliver on its promise to reduce paper consumption.

End of rant.

Think about what the jobs have been. Finance, real estate, marketing, insurance, law. Even medicine is more about paper pushing than medicine. True, we still have the "defense" industry. We have actually significantly de-industrialized already, but in the wrong direction! We no longer produce anything (much) of real value.

Then there is this, right my own back yard too!

Native Americans see unity as path to prosperity

HOLLYWOOD, Florida (CNN) -- The slot machines are ringing, music is blasting at the crowded poolside bar, and people are dancing to celebrity DJs at hip nightclubs. But this is not a scene on the Las Vegas strip. This action is taking place on an Indian reservation...

This is their idea of prosperity?! @#%$%!!
Humanity is sooo screwed!

That energy would come from coal. The Crow Tribe wants to mine some of the 9 billion tons of coal that it estimates is on its land.

Crow Nation Chairman Cedric Black Eagle hopes the success of his tribe will lie in turning coal into liquid diesel. "It will open the door for Indian Country in energy fields and help this country start veering away from its dependence on foreign oil," he says.

As the group meets to discuss coal, Bowers recalls that it was the need for beef that prompted his idea for the Native American Group.

"Here we have all these cafes, casinos -- everybody eats a hamburger," says Bowers. "And than (I) realized that we don't have enough beef to supply our own needs, and that's when I reached out to other Native Americans that did have cattle."

True, we still have the "defense" industry

Ah; but do you have a Gambling "Industry"? We have one here in Australia, and we take it very seriously.
It gets an aweful lot of airtime. Almost as much as polly tishuns.

Ah; but do you have a Gambling "Industry"?

As you can see from my previous comment our Aborigenes Native Americans seem to have that industry well under control in their own nations, they even give tourist visas to the Americans who come to visit with their weekend passports.

Granted there are a few nation states such as Las Vegas that are not under their direct control.

"It is important to note that currently there are 562 federally recognized tribes in the United States, not all of which have chosen to game. However, it is safe to assume that the tribal gaming industry will continue to grow in the near term, as new casino and resort developments are built by tribes and America's general passion for opportunities to gamble (Las Vegas, poker tours, Internet, etc.), continues to flourish. There are currently a number of lawsuits pending which challenge the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act on constitutional grounds (see e.g. Warren v. United States)"

As per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_gambling_enterprises

Its enlightening to read the PreHisory on Native American Gambling.....on that wiki.

Then the Supreme Court decision that set the wheels in motion.

Airdale-and the biggest casinos seem to be in the NorthEast

Airdale, I know you are right and hopefully not too many of those are planning on doing this either:

The Crow Tribe wants to mine some of the 9 billion tons of coal that it estimates is on its land.

Crow Nation Chairman Cedric Black Eagle hopes the success of his tribe will lie in turning coal into liquid diesel. "

DaveByGolly on the InfoAge and others.

When you use MSFT as your model I see the issue somewhat differently.

MSFT should have been treated as IBM was by the Anti Trust laws regarding monopolistic behaviour and marketing yet for some reason they were given a pass many many times.

There products are absolute trash and engineered for one reason. To force you to buy their upgrades. Once PCs would run on 128MB of core. Now they require 2 gig to even get going.

Yet if you remove MSFT and replace it with Linux you will notice that you do not need all those resources. This is called 'open source' and was pretty much killed off by various means including out and out attacks.

I suggest the reading of ESR's 'The Chathedral and The Bazaar' for detailed insight into the unfilled promises of the rise of computing on the personal front and what 'might have been' except for the proclivities of MSFT and Co.

It was all marketing mumbojumbo and everyone swallowed it.

The world suffered. The net suffered and instead of a font of knowledge it became just another marketing scam/world.

Try to find a small bit of information. You will get 10,000 hits on those wanting to sell you that tidbit when all it is is information. Buried way way deep down might just be that little piece of info but you surely will not find it.

Devour the paper industry? Not til every last usuable tree has been processed into asswipe or worse. Junk mail abounds.etc...etc...

No need to gnash teeth and wail. Its over. We lost. They won.

Now 'just exaclty what are YOU going to do about it',,,whine or get off the gird and relearn what life is really all about?

Some will say''' LOOK he is typing this on a computer!!!!!! NO FAIR.

Yes but I could be typing it on a Linux based box with no cost in software and sitting next to a dead printer. In a smallish farm in the outback and gleaning some of the last 'dabs of free info' here on TOD and reading of what comes next. A righteous usage of computing, IMO of course.

Airdale-I mix technologies when appropriate and I think there could have been a better way but NOOOOOOO ,TPTB made their decisions, now I make mine AND I could do all this 'off the grid' and with free photons creating electrons,,etc....which I soon will if the devil donn't care and the creeks don't rise.....

MSFT also ran a fraudulent Ponzi scheme with the blessing of the US government but that is another story.

I am no fan of Microsoft, but Microsoft would not survive if their products were "absolute trash". The fact is that one reason Microsoft dominates the marketplace is the power and utility of their software.

Also, nearly all commercial software products require you to purchase upgrades and consume more hardware at some point. Hardly particular to Microsoft.

"Open Source" is alive and struggling not because TPTB killed it off - there's tons of "open source" software out there - but due to lack of end-user support and instability/incompabilities.

Microsoft dominates the marketplace because of well-documented anti-competition techniques - which if used by almost any other corporation would have resulted in all kinds of legal issues...remember Netscape?

The fact is that one reason Microsoft dominates the marketplace is the power and utility of their software.

Really?

Please do explain the anti-trust convictions then.

The fact is that one reason Microsoft dominates the marketplace is the power and utility of their software.

Absolutely false. The reason is that they drove one competitor after another out of business, and prevented others from ever getting off the ground. Businesses were formed with the idea of selling, not to the public, but selling out to MS. They used the exact same tactics J.D. Rockefeller, but in software.

There is however some truth to your complaints about open source. But I'm not going there now. Were already far from the oil patch. (My fault, not yours.)

Edit: I re-read your sentence above. Now I see the "one", in "one reason". So I have to back off the "absolutely false". The rest I still defend.

Microsoft is a law firm. They write software on the side----
Now back to Capitalism, and the need to expand indefinitely in a finite environment.
Anyone see a problem here?
Look around, how are things?

I disagree.

Anything that can be done by MSFT Office can be done with Open Office under Linux.

What you speak of it mostly gaming nonsense. Drivers for each thing that comes out. And I might add that there are those who work in scientific areas that must use Unix/Linux for good reasons.

Also one can actually 'alter' the code. Try that with MousyFailingSuksTerrible(MSFT) products or op system.

Airdale

As usual, everybody's half right.

Pro MS 1) MS operating systems are VERY GOOD at getting other software companies to operate well on them. I use a dozen critical applications which are only available on MS platforms, and which (finally with XP) do run very well on them. 2) Linux (Open Source) is great if all you do is surf the net, play games and write emails from home. (Also can be a useful lab environment for scientists). Start a project on how to run a multi-site multi-thousand-person company with it only..... (Hint: you can't get there from here)

Con MS 1) Their VB / .NET etc. crap is almost totally worthless. No creativity, not object oriented (VB), largely stolen from other software houses (Sybase) etc. etc. etc. 2) Most of their additions to the C+ world were crap designed to lock development into using solely their products.

Linux (Open Source) is great if all you do is surf the net, play games and write emails from home.

Speaking professionally as an ISP [since 1994 100% open source], that's simply wrong. The net depends on open source and linux is a huge part of that. Best *business* decision I ever made was throwing my Windows PC out the window into the driveway years ago. Got a Windows PC then specifically to run some proprietary software - never made that mistake again.

cfm in Gray, ME

Does it depend on what you want to do and on how you work? I tried several linuxes and found they all were strongly dependent on mouse without keyshort alternative. And was unable to do all manner of adjustments (eg display settings) which were easy with win2000. Linux would be great if it was great.

RobinPC,

Well what 'distro' was you using and what GUI? There are several GUIs each with its own advantages.

Yes Linux is not something you obtain, load and start using without a learning curve but the benefits are beyond belief. You will leave Windoze in the dust.

But most are simply afraid to tread there.

As someone above noted..Linux/Unix rules the net. Under the surface that is. Try Apache(free) and then MSFT Server. Pay for one and not the other...Apache is world class. MSServer,,well its got some problems.

I can set up an Apache on one of my machines in an easy morning and be testing my web pages right away.

If you want to get with the newest go to Unbuntu.

Yes for the masses...who can hardly read anymore its Windoze. Who have a hard time formatting a HD. Or can't understand what a driver really is.

Airdale-do we want good code or mouseshit? I suppose its mouseshit all the way...and unless anyone remembers W2K? That was heart and soul IBM Warp. Or its forerunner. Who do you think invented virtual memory,wrote the first code? One guess. I was working on mainframe VM and MVS before Gates go out of his mama's diaper training. Like late 60s/early 70s stuff.

IBM didn't invent virtual memory or multi-user OS. Tymshare developed these technologies in the early 1960s, well in advance of IBM. As the business grew we installed and modified VM and MVS based on user requirements, but both systems were more expensive to operate and offered fewer features than our SD940s and PDP-10 XEXEC.

I tried several linuxes and found they all were strongly dependent on mouse without keyshort alternative.

This is small potatoes. I've been running Ubuntu at home for years, and have no issues. The amount of free software is truly mind-boggling, including word processors, spreadsheets, presentation, database, etc, etc.

Try Ubuntu 9.04; it's free.

I tried Ubuntu about 2-3 yrs ago, spent 2-3 hours not getting very far; impossible to change the screen resolution; gui much less convenient than w2000; lack of documentation. There might indeed be a ton of free software but how good is it, and even if it (some) is great, do I really want to spend 2 or 3 months fulltime just retraining myself from the list below (in order to find out whether). I know for fact there's nothing comparable to Ventura (which is why Microsoft conspired to clobber Corel because they were trying to do a linux version). And hardware not infrequently says "no linux--hard luck":
Printers, scanner, modems, iiyama, soundcard.
ventura, coreldraw, homesite, FTP, k-lite codec, MBM5, encarta, nero, sygate, distiller, acrobat, audition, rosoft recorder, media player classic, photopaint, access, excel, powerpoint, word, still more...
I repeat, linux would be great...

..

Yup, if you give up at the first hurdle, GNU/linux is not for you.

Ventura - fair point. Learning "the Unix way" and using TEX takes a lifetime. For simple work Scribus might do what you want.

Coreldraw - depends. Try Inkscape, or the drawing program in OpenOffice - much better than the one in MS Office. Of course no huge libraries of third-party graphics.

Homesite - no longer exists as a product - or has it been re-instated since '03? Could try running it under "WINE". There are other website development tools in Linux, but not much for the "home user".

FTP - came from Unix, if you mean classic FTP, client and server. I assume you mean a GUI FTP client, of which there are a dozen or more.

Sygate functionality is pretty much built in, but sometimes can take a bit of finding.

Acrobat distiller, excel, powerpoint, word, access. Try OpenOffice, but yes, at least till Office 2007, the Microsoft programs were more accessible to the casual and untrained user. Office 97 is the "high water mark" for me -- but I haven't tried 2007. Acrobat reader is available for Linux.

Nero: try K3B. I found it easier to use than the OEM Nero I got with my CD writer. Of course installing K3B means pulling in half of the K Desktop Environment, a few megabytes.

Photopaint: try Gimpshop.

Encarta? Seriously?

Sound apps - Yes. This is where GNU/Linux is weakest and takes the greatest amount of perseverance. Apple's MacOS X seems to be the best Unix-like system for home-studio multimedia.

I have to admit I "defected" from Microsoft in the windows 98 - ME horror years. I got sick of having my PC freeze on me with no way to stop the problem application. And, I liked problem-solving, so converting was fun. "What one fool can do, another can!" as they say. ;-)

Windows 2000 Professional is a tidy piece of code. XP is good too. They say Windows 7 will be good. I hope so.

Ubuntu is OK, but try PCLinuxOS if you ever want to try Linux again. Or, for old hardware (that old 486 laptop with 128MB of RAM) and light needs (email etc), Puppy Linux is great - it makes the old hardware speedy again, it has a Windows 95-like interface, and it seems to "know about" an awful lot of different accessories.

PS: I haven't paid attention to computer virus warnings in years. No need. :-)

I would vote for Mandriva and Ubuntu. I am using both right now. Try the LiveCD to see if you like it. Pretty much work straight out of the box.

Did somebody yank the world around 180? Suddenly MSWindows is the platform for serious business and Linux is the choice for grandma and the kids?

Somebody tell Blizzard, because they still won't release a Linux WoW client, yet they run their servers and internal development on Linux.

2) Linux (Open Source) is great if all you do is surf the net, play games and write emails from home. (Also can be a useful lab environment for scientists). Start a project on how to run a multi-site multi-thousand-person company with it only.

Bullshit.

Large software like SAP, Oracle and others have run on UNIX for years.

Plenty of multi site multi thousand person firms run on UNIX. An example of such a project would be Compiere/Adempiere, PostgreSQL, email, web servers, Alfresco.

But *DO* go ahead - cite actual failures.

Linux and Open Office may have features superior to Microsoft, but that doesn't change the fact that Microsoft does deliver (and has since DOS/Basic) a reasonably robust and feature rich system (OS and applications) that have met the vast majority of user needs, in advance (generally) of the competition.

You're talking nonsense about Unix, which was developed to timeshare "mainframes" among multiple users. The only thing inherent in Unix for scientific users is that a) universities adopted it, and 2) it was an alternative to expensive IBM systems.

Drivers? Who in their right mind, apart from OS and hardware developers, needs to write drivers? The beauty of the IBM PC, and to a certain extent Microsoft, was that they offered an OPEN system as compared to the Mac. You could easily add drivers for new hardware and support new applications. This is one reason why Microsoft/Intel established an early dominance in the computing business.

Hey son,

IBM DOS? Ever hear of it? I guess not.

Then IBM hired Gates to do some work. He took a hike not too long after that. We were already doing our version of windows. Had been internally for some time. Using light pens and other means.

You are missing history that you never knew about.

I happened to have worked in Development on the forerunners of the IBMPC. Do you think Gates wrote the BIOS for that as well?

Gates stole most everything he could get his paws on. This is well known and hardly contested.

If it hadn't been for IBM CEO John Akers ,Gates would have been a nobody.

Airdale-I ran IBM DOS on a IBM PC on which my requisition was personally signed by Don Estridge himself.I am speaking of the original document. That was very early. It cost me $4,000 and only had two 71/4 inch floppies. Then we could speak of Capt Crunch.
Gates came along later.

Wow, you're not only arrogant, but ignorant. I'll have to keep this mind when reviewing your other postings.

Let me clue you in a few things: I started programming computers when they were made out of transistors and had magnetic core memory (AN/UYK 5V). I key-punched RPG for the 1401. I programmed the first microprocessors starting with 8008. I had the earliest IBM PC (including a version running CPM) and the LISA on my desk. I worked with Doug Engelbart, the guy who invented the mouse.

So don't tell me what history I missed, pal, I was there.

Aww you probably had to get Airdale to make your 029 drumcards for you.

Ah, the 1401. You've probably seen a few things. You might enjoy some of the stories on The Daily WTF. Plus ca change...

Cheers.

Linux and Open Office may have features superior to Microsoft, but that doesn't change the fact that Microsoft does deliver (and has since DOS/Basic) a reasonably robust and feature rich system (OS and applications) that have met the vast majority of user needs, in advance (generally) of the competition.

It may seem marginally off track from the topic of hierarchy, paradigm and collapse, but let me connect Microsoft and Linux. Closed intellectual property vs open source. Enclosing the commons vs sharing. Profit vs gift economy. Sure, Microsoft meets the needs of the vast majority of user needs, but the same could be said of Apple. The difference is that Microsoft owns the market. That is by itself an adequate and sufficient justification for breaking up Microsoft.

And that doesn't even get me to the wonderful stuff the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation does IF your poor country accepts the IP laws they want.

What worries me is that Homeland Stazi is running a lot of linux.

cfm in Gray, ME

Utban Eco,you are absolutely corect in that microsoft has a good product and good support.Most folks,excluding the people who are seriously into computers, don't have the foggiest idea why microsoft dominates.

they dominate partly for the reason because, as problem riddled as thier product is,it is pretty much backward compatible aaaall the waaaay back. you can almost always run anything old even from the days of dos on any newer ms system.try that on your overpriced mac.

another reason is that once you know windows, you can learn the upgrades pdq as new versions come out.

the biggy is of course that somebody dominates most industries,and microsoft,once they got out on front,had free sailing.virtually all new consumer/business software is windows compatible,cause that's where the sales are.IT instructors are very fond of sayiny that nobody is ever fired for selecting microsoft.

add the fact that almost any new computer savvy employee can walk into almost any business and sit down and go right to work as regards the office computers.BG was smart enough to price his near monopoly product high enough to get rich but low enough that nobody (much,so far)running a business can train employees on other systems for less than his liscense fees.

nevertheless i hope and believe that microsofts days are numbered for two main reasons.the first one is that the open source movement looks like it will attain critical mass and eventually the average small business or individual user will therefore be able to get cheap and easy formal training as in an introductory short course at a community college.I understand that once you can do windows, you can learn linux in less than half the time that it took to learn windows.somewhat more accomplished users can learn what they need to know online.

the other reason is that large organizations-governments in particular-are now willing to invest in the training necessary to break away from microsoft.a government clerk in brazil can be trained in linux at govt expense far more economically than brazil can pay microsoft from now until eternity.

as this expertise becomes more common, I think we will eventually see employment ads read "linux a plus" . We will then be within sight of the end of bg's monopoly.

OldFarmer you got a lot of errors in your beliefs about MSFT.

I won't go into all that but the MSFT vs Linux wars have been running for a loooooooong time and we know the winner is MSFT. They have the money, they have the students(who are given almost free stuff), and they have the market and lawyers as well. They will win.

And that nonsense about if you want to surf and email then use Linux.

Come on fella. How experienced are you with Linux?

Everybudda and kiddie uses 'portals'.

I can put up GUIs on Linux that you can't even believe. Multiple windows, multiple desktops, way way off the scale as far as MSFT technology.

I won't belabor the point. You are apparently not that much into what is under the cover as regards open source and Linux/Unix.

As I was working on a huge ATT WorldHqrs mainframe problem in Morrisville, NJ at Bells Labs,etc...I walked past Dennis Ritchies cubicle. Guy in charge of the mainframe software told me that a kid down the hall was creating something that would set the world on fire.

I had to see this. I did. He was coding up C. They were doing the early work of Unix. They were making a real difference.

But it all went mostly away. The world is MSFT. Long live the frigging world.

Airdale

I can put up GUIs on Linux that you can't even believe. Multiple windows, multiple desktops, way way off the scale as far as MSFT technology.

Sure, but how many grandparents can do that? How many office-workers that aren't computer specialists? How many blue-collar workers that just want to write a few emails? Linux does a lot of great things, but being easy for beginners isn't one of them.

Microsoft is a predatory monopoly, but that doesn't mean alternative products are automatically better. The fact of the matter is that WindowsXP allows most people do perform the tasks they want more easily than Linux does, especially if they don't have a family member who can configure and troubleshoot for them.

You are apparently not that much into what is under the cover as regards open source and Linux/Unix.

Only a trivial fraction of people are, which is something that most Linux zealots appear to forget. For most people, a computer is just a tool, and they really don't give a damn about how it works or what else it can do.

Linux is great for power users, but they're not where the money is.

Couldn't agree more. The main problem with open source is the inherent instability of the development model. You can't design stable systems by committee. Instability also contributes to major support issues such as version incompatibilities, bugs, security holes, poor documentation, etc.

Linux does a lot of great things, but being easy for beginners isn't one of them.

Ubuntu 9.04 is arguably as easy as Windows. Try it and let us know.

Dead right Pitt. People want computers to make their lives easier not harder. As for Ubuntu being easy, you first have to install it (n I don't have the 4gb spare at the moment), whereas most Whinedozers just buy it already installed and couldn't install anything to save their life. This discussion reminds me of the man with a derailleur bike who absolutely insisted it could change gears while stationary (like my hub gear actually could).

Microsoft creates very clunky operating systems because their continued existence depends on it.
A ton of their kernel is for security issues, which is because of their popularity for being targeted.

The open-source movement has made Linux very robust while keeping it lightweight. Don't underestimate how many people are using Linux. I believe the number stands at around 30 million right now, which is not a small number. There are then a few more using other UNIX systems. Unfortunately these numbers seemed to have hit a plateau recently. I know lots of layman users who are unhappy with the performance of Microsoft products and have considered switching to Linux. Furthermore, I believe cloud computing will be Microsoft's downfall. People will buy supercheap machines for $5 or less that will run applications on servers and will pay a small monthly fee. Other companies are already way ahead of Microsoft in this, and this is debated to be why Bill Gates gave up, seeing the coming demise of his own company.

"But even on narrower grounds, the trees didn't really begin to cry buckets until the computer came along. I was (and still am I suppose in some sense) a computer guy. The computer revolution is more than fifty years old and has yet to deliver on its promise to reduce paper consumption."

At work, I program intranet applications (PHP/MySQL) that are primarily workflow apps meant for online only usage. When I roll out a new app for someone, one question (usually the first) is "How do I print this?"

The computer revolution is more than fifty years old and has yet to deliver on its promise to reduce paper consumption.

Well, actually, it did. I no longer save any of my work on paper - it's all on a USB flash drive. Incoming paper is scanned in and tossed. I only print things when other people insist on it.

Its just that a lot of people are more comfortable with familiar paper. An example of inertia in world views...

Actually, Microsoft would not have a product if it did not consume plenty of natural resources. It takes 90 barrels of fresh water to produce one CPU of a computer. Without microchips, Microsoft wouldn't be in business. This is not even mentioning all the other equipment that it takes to make a computer. In addition, it takes electricity to run a computer, and right now, electricity requires mainly coal; after all, energy is what "fuels" the global economy. As many service packs and updates Microsoft turns out, it takes an awful lot of electricity to keep those servers running 24/7. Electricity also requires copper for the transmission lines and transformers, not to mention the amount of plastic needed to cover the lines and the machinery and telephone poles (wood) needed to string the lines. Even if Microsoft only used CDs, a CD requires polycarbonate plastic (i.e., it takes oil) to make.

Great paper Rachael! Vaclav Smil and Gus Speth would surely approve. The point you make about going from an "empty world" to a "full world" is a nice simple way of outlining what has happened, especially during the last few decades as exponential growth (of consumption) has taken its toll on earth's finite resources.

I remember reading the lilly pad story about 30 years ago in engineering school. One day there was one lilly pad on a small pond, the next day there were two, after that four, and so on. Before long the pond was half filled with lilly pads and then next day the pond was 100% covered.

A society’s responses depend on the ability of its political, economic, and social institutions to respond, as well as on its cultural values (2). Civilizations that go into a state of decline often do so after unwise choices in the face of stress (30). These choices are made because of an absence of appropriate understanding of the situation or of institutions to mount a flexible response. Cultures become too locked-in to adapt to a changing environment (27); the ruling polity fails to establish institutions to respond to the crises; and decline occurs..

To the first point, there is a lot our political, economic and social institutions can do. On the question of understanding the situation, I am not finding many people who even want to think about such matters. And finally, even if they do think about them, there are so many vested interests and most people are too locked-in to try and adapt. So your conclusion seems very plausable to me.

I am reminded, however, of the quote, "culture trumps stategy every time," and believe there is a lot of truth in this. If there is a key to unlock this situation perhaps it is figuring out a way to change our culture and the rest will follow. I am not equipped to answer how this might best be accomplished but, I'll bet others might have some interesting ideas.

I have no argument with your analysis or conclusion but significant adaptation to a changing environment will not happen. I lack the knowledge and credentials of the authors but I do have 76 years of experience. I am the son of an East Texas sharecropper, Texas A&M drop out, and retired senior executive of a major aerospace corporation (Director of Computing technology and Engineering).

Based on my experience we in general:
1. Look out for number one.
2. Take all we can from the commons.
3. Want it now.
4. Lack the intellectual ability to recognize the changing environment.
5. Assume that wise people and benevolent political leaders will solve our problems.
6. Our self-reliance has been destroyed by destructive compassion and feel good policies of vote buying politicians.

I speak frequently to local groups, write letters to the local newspaper, write a monthly letter to an extensive list and ‘buttonhole’ individuals regarding Peak Oil issues. Other than blank stares, the most frequent response is, “If those damned environmentalists got out of the way we would not have oil problems”. In that environment even the knowledgeable politician knows to keep his mouth shut.

Adaptation will only be by small isolated tribal like groups that are fortunate enough to have a knowledgeable self-sacrificing informal leader or leaders.

TNG,
I guess in 1970, you would have expected DDT to still be used widely today, we would still have acid rain. In 1990 you would have expected the ozone hole to have expanded and now be blinding every animal on the planet. In the 2000's you would have expected coal fired power stations to continue to be built, and today you probably also expect that wind and solar energy will never amount to more than a few percent of our electrical energy consumption.

People have to see $5, $10 gasoline before they think Peak Oil may be real, and $20 gasoline before they accept it is real!. So we may have 20 years of gasoline rationing, during a transition to EV's, it's happened before, Britain had 10 years food rationing after WW11.

I see many cases of adaptation in Australia, we use water more sparingly after having a few good drought scares, garbage recycling is now a way of life, many regions are now protected from logging or development, environmental flows of rivers are being restored. We are still 30 years behind Europeans but moving in the right direction. Both Australia and the US lost a decade with leaders who had no vision, but at least now some positive things are happening again.

Huh?

DDT is still working its way into groundwater supplies - the problem hasn't gone away. We do still have acid rain (in Asia). The ozone hole is still growing (peak expected in 2015), but it could never blind every animal on the planet - skin cancer on the naked apes, maybe... Coal fired power stations are still being built. Wind and solar don't amount to more than a few percent of electrical energy production, and even less of consumption.

Oh, this is that dry Aussie humour, isn't it? You got me - cheers!

Just step outside, do you hear the birds singing or is it another "silent spring" as rightly feared by Rachael Carlson and may have come to pass if DDT had not be banned. The point is DDT was banned and will slowly be removed form the environment.
Wind energy now(May 2009) accounts for 2% of US electrical generation and grew by >40% in last 2 years. It was < 0.5% in 2005, and averaged 1.25% for 2008, we both have a good chance to live to see wind and hydro exceed nuclear and these three non-FF energy sources exceed present(220GW average) coal fired electricity generation ( by 2020).
Cheer up mate.

IMO as long as there is an empty field, a stand of trees, a meadow, an open body of water, mankind will never be able to accept the concept of carry capacity.

Here in Oregon with vast open areas of forest, grass land, and waters, people ABSOLUTELY dismiss any kind of talk of limits. The world still seems so limitless, so infinite.

Even in the largest cities you can travel just a relatively short distance and you are into scary “wilderness” OOOOOOOOOOooooooo! The perception is that we have a loooong way to go before we are “full”.

We will not evolve into a new paradigm until this perception is visibly challenged. We are constantly hearing on National Geographic and such, about “vast regions which are largely unexplored”. I understand the realities but I would estimate that, certainly in this area at least, less than 10% of the population does, and that’s being generous.

How do we get people to understand the constraints when we have so much open space still? Google Earth maybe?

..

Soup2, You have skated all around it.

This paper ignores the elephant in the room. It does make implicit assumptions about that elephant. Of course if the assumptions are wrong, all courses of action based upon them could be but are not necessarily wrong.

The elephant...man's most basic nature and the limits that sets for all possible WIT combinations. Of course some say there are no genetic/organizational based limits (some believe a divine source mandates no limits, some believe limitless possibility is mandated by the absense of a divine source) so...we are not likely to get agreement on what our most basic nature is soon.

We could gain much if we had full view of all the aspects of different societies, cultures, and civilizations (not a good idea to use these terms interchangeably) we study, but we don't and the way our biases influence the way we view the incomplete record we do have can be very hard to take into account.

Still I liked the tone of the paper, it seemed to have that youthful undercurrent of optimism that can come from the sense of near limitless possibility in spite of the dark scenarios acknowledged. Whether we ever have it right about what we are (individually and collectively) may not be near as important as the constant effort to try and find a way to make it all work.

Assuming that our society can overcome path dependence and can avoid becoming locked-in to maladaptive institutions, the process of cultural evolution will push our society toward the adoption of institutions that best suit the new circumstances. That being said, a major unique feature of cultural evolution is that it is ‘‘reflexive’’ in the sense that our cultural goals affect the process. To a certain extent, we can design the future that we want by creating new cultural variants for evolution to act upon and by modifying the goals that drive cultural selection. If our societal goals shift from maximizing growth of the market economy to maximizing sustainable human well-being, different institutions will be better adapted to achieve these goals.

Nate, I do love your innate (I hate puns) optimism, but I've gotta say, I just don't find a whole lotta reasons to share it. Cause them's some pretty grand assumptions thar...

This paper was written by a group of colleagues. I am now off campus so didn't participate. It is not as utopian as many macro environmental papers which is why I posted it. Personally I agree with the authors that culture has the POTENTIAL to make very steep changes in our trajectory, but I disagree (or would add) that culture is a double edged sword too -i.e. it can rouse us to nasty things just as easily as good. It is also my opinion that the time for planet-wide cultural change was a generation ago - our short genetic leashes (as individuals) are going to pose a bigger barrier to change than theory might suggest. Still, what option do we have? We now have data we aren't happier or healthier with 'more' -how to steer the ship away from that goal is the question...

We now have data we aren't happier or healthier with 'more' -how to steer the ship away from that goal is the question...

I completely agree with your point, however if steering the ship is difficult in the best of times, I'm afraid that steering one, that is taking on water and listing badly, is a few orders of magnitude more so.

Still what option do we have

Those that are aware must continue to stridently raise the alarm and I mean that in the fullest sense!

We are well past the point where we can be complacent. We need to hold our captains and crew accountable if they are in dereliction of their duties and are asleep on the bridge. We have try to make sure that there are sufficient life boats even for the passengers in steerage.

Of course the problem is, as I'm sure anyone who has tried to raise the alarm must know, that the first class passengers are very much still enjoying the party on the upper deck and regard those who are saying that we have to change course and probably abandon the ship as if they are the ones who are rocking the boat.

They dismiss all this with the firmly held cultural belief that the ship we are on is unsinkable and all we have to do is prime the bilge pumps, and bail out the flooded compartments so we can continue sailing along our merry way. I'm afraid they have to be slapped very hard to make them wake up and come out of their trance of denial.

For the record, I do think that people like yourself and others who are already awake, (most people here on this site), are doing the best that they can under the present circumstances and I very much would like to salute you for doing it.

Your post is drowning in its metaphors. Such metaphors can be useful for making easier to understand but they must not be elevated to substitute for rigorous genuine conceptual and causal reasoning.

Your post is drowning in its metaphors

Agreed! I got more than a little bit carried away with that one, especially given the audience.

Personally I prefer my metaphors mixed, not stirred.

Really, I thought your metaphors were quite apt. I think we need to keep a list of the metaphors that get our situation across most effectively. Of course, all metaphors and analogies fall apart at some point. But most people need comparisons to understand any new concept, so they can connect what they know with what they don't. And of course metaphors that are effective for some will seem overwrought, overused, or just confusing to others.

A regime shift cannot occur without changing worldviews, institutions, and technologies together, as an integrated system.

This is misleading or awkwardly phrased. A shift does not occur willy-nilly, off one day and on the next. It would have been better to say that a regime shift can be regarded to have occurred when worldview, institutions, and technologies are seen to have changed. The actual change is evolutionary and piecemeal.

That said, I wonder how true this is. Perhaps we need some instances of actual regime shift that we can evaluate. Was there a worldview shift with the industrial revolution, or just a shift of technologies and institutions? Maybe that wasn't a regime shift, then?

A crisis is often required to allow the addicted individual to see and to acknowledge the addiction, and the transition to a post addiction state can be quite traumatic. However with proper knowledge of the process and with care and foresight, the transition can be both relatively smooth and highly rewarding.

Maybe, maybe not. Some people seem able to change their lives without a crisis, while others seem to require a crisis (and these are the ones feasted upon by the religious evangelicals out to save the sinners). I suppose a catastrophist would see the need for some interruption in the "regime" so as to usher in a new regime, while a uniformitarian would have no need for crises and would see a series of problems being solved or resolved and ending up with a changed "regime." Some people seem to want to "rush" things and get the old over with so we can get on with the new (and thus yearn for some crisis), while others see the change as occurring slowly over time, bit by bit, without some overarching architectonic of the result to guide the process.

We now live in a ‘‘full’’ world, a world relatively full of humans and their built infrastructure.

This is US-centric (and narcissistic) idea. How full is Haiti or Bangladesh or Cuba or Canada?

Is the US with its 300 million full? Then how about China with about 4 times the population density? Is it full? Or how about India, with 11 times the population density of the US, is it full? Just where on earth do you find a world full of humans and their infrastructure? This full and empty world idea is absurd.

Next time you fly somewhere, look down. Lots of open space. Many people question the premise that the world is somehow 'full' in relation to particular resources, when clearly there are great expanses of undeveloped and relatively unoccupied land. Look at a desert ecosystem however, and you can see a clear example in the way say the low density of trees and foliage corresponds to how little ground water is available. It isn't always easy to SEE when ecological limits are reached unless one knows what to look for and understands interdependency of the elements within an ecosystem.

As the impact of overpopulation and overconsumption increase, the majority of people may continue to ignore or simply fail to recognize the pattern of ecological failures, attributing ecological problems to other factors such as political, religious, or cultural ones.

Yes, civilization itself will have to be redefined in order to become sustainable.

Next time you fly somewhere, look down. Lots of open space.

If by open space you mean no buildings, sure.

But 'open' - naw. Most land is being "used" by man.

But 'open' - naw. Most land is being "used" by man.

Well a lot of it is still mostly out of reach because it is covered by water, but were working on it. Especially the oil companies...

Even that 'surface' of that is being used. The biology of ocean is being (over)used.
And don't forget that moves are a-foot for FedGov to "own" the water
http://www.rense.com/general85/fein.htm

Wow, one can't let ones guard down for even a moment anymore without some new attempt at control being invented by TPTB.

The term `waters of the United States' means all waters subject to the ebb and flow of the tide

I wonder if they are already taking into consideration that fact that about 60% of our bodies are composed of water and that even this water is subject to the gravitational attraction of the moon?

We now live in a ‘‘full’’ world, a world relatively full of humans and their built infrastructure.

This is US-centric (and narcissistic) idea. How full is Haiti or Bangladesh or Cuba or Canada?

Is the US with its 300 million full? Then how about China with about 4 times the population density? Is it full? Or how about India, with 11 times the population density of the US, is it full? Just where on earth do you find a world full of humans and their infrastructure? This full and empty world idea is absurd."Full" world makes perfect sense to me.

I think that the point the authors are making relates to scale, not distribution. "Full" relates to scale, how big the system is, rather than how equally things are being distributed. Sure, some individuals and even nations will be left out in terms of economic wealth and resources, but overall we have reached the "limits to growth." So the answers to your questions are yes, yes, yes, and everywhere. We clearly live in a different world than, say, 300 years ago when we had perhaps 10% of the population consuming a fraction of the resources per capita.

There may be some variations here, and some countries or people are doubtless "fatter" (so to speak) than others in terms of resource consumption, but the general point is inescapable. The idea of (for example) Haiti being "empty" would imply that Haiti has vast natural resources which are unexploited because they are poorer. This doesn't make sense to me.

Paul MacCready estimated that 98% of land-based vertebrates are now humans, their livestock, and their pets, leaving 2% for all the deer, elephants, and everything else. In this sense humans already totally dominate the earth. I don't know how he calculated this, but I suspect he's on the right track, and this is the point the authors are making.

If we are not "full" in terms of resource utilization already we will soon be within a few more doubling periods.

And isn't there a stat that 40% of all photosynthesis that now happens on earth is being utilized directly or (mostly) indirectly by humans? And of course that doesn't count the hundreds of millions of years worth of photosynthetic energy we have used up in the last hundred or so years by burning fossil fuels.

Tainter also said collapse was a kind of adaptation and that, in general, lower classes were better off after it because they no longer had to support the higher classes - the inhabitants of Teotihuacan knew what they were dong when they burned down the temples, and only the temples, before leaving their unsustainable city. The problem is that we, in developed countries, are the functional equivalents of the roman plebeians. We have a vested interest in the continuation of the system, even though we know it is unsustainable, and would lose quite a lot should it be reformed.

So expect a stubborn resistance to any real transition toward sustainability and a lot of tokenism and technobabble, but no real response, except the one Tainter (and Greer, and Heinberg) envision : a slow roman-like slide into forced sustainability. It is not the first time. It won't be the last.

And by the way, the socialist / capitalist discussion is pretty much irrelevant. Aside from the fact real-life socialism proved inefficient (it lost the fight) and quite politically unpleasant (why don't Cuban talk here about their experience ? Very simple, they are not allowed to) he collective ownership of the means of production does not address the problems of limits in anyway, and since central planning means diverting resources to a bureaucracy powerful enough to make sure its needs are addressed before the populations', it can even be as counterproductive as cornucopian od free-market fantasies

http://theviewfrombrittany.blogspot.com/
http://damienperrotin.com

Before I make my main points here, I shall preface with the point that the social/behavioural/historical sciences are burdened with an enormous and confusing literature, much of it authored by politically-dogmatised and/or philosophically-muddled minds. And consequently one should not be too damning of anyone for failing to cite even a key document from the prior art.

The present article suffers from ignorance of the key contribution in this field, that is A Study of History by Arnold Toynbee. His 6 door-stop volumes were usefully condensed into an abridgement.
(You can read my own causal elaboration on it in pages 43-53 of this book: http://www.lulu.com/content/140930; also my 1987 article which was on my zazz.fsnet.co.uk website which has recently died, maybe still in archive.org pending getting back online.)

The article falsely equates empires with civilisations. By contrast, Toynbee explains that universal states (empires) are things that arise within decadent civilisations which have already broken down and are heading towards disintegration.

As for whether a civilisation copes or not with adverse circumstances, Toynbee (and myself) discussed this at length. He explained that civilisations invariably originate as response to great adversity (such as appearance of the Sahara Desert forcing people into the perilous uncultivated Nile Valley flood-swamps).

The young civilisation is characterised by a competent creative elite which commands respect with its charm. The civilisation thereafter becomes decadent, and my 1987 article (/book p43-53) explained the causation of that as judicious genius making itself redundant and mindless authoritarianism being naturally selected in its place.

The decadent civilisation is ruled by a dominant elite of authoritarian incompetents imposing their dictats by force. This dominant elite sees everything in terms of fighting between us and them. It is utterly useless at tackling outside/ environmental challenges, and on the contrary adds to them. That is what we are seeing now. In what I call inverted meritocracy, the scum rise to the top and suppress the competent (e.g. Lysenkoism, very much alive here and now).

Conclusion. The current governments will never do anything useful; they can be relied on to only make matters worse. We have to concentrate on building our lifeboats rather than wasting any time talking with those pompous overrated wastes of space.

I should also add that Toynbee also distinguishes between civilisations (28-or-so very large societies) and primitive societies. The latter are liable to be much more stable and sustainable over long time-periods, providing a civilisation doesn't come along and swamp them (as has often happened). It appears there may be just one or two untouched primitive societies still existing, in the deep Amazon and remote Indian ocean, armed with bows and arrows. They aren't going to even notice the civilised world's energy crisis.

Between the Amazon being cut down to wake way for oil palm, soy and cattle to fuel and feed the world, and the islands being drowned because of Global Warming, and their oceans being emptied of fish they will notice.

Sad that instead of preserving what little wild areas we have, we are destroying it.

It's like burning the furniture at the first chill of Autumn because we're too lazy to put a sweater on.

..

Robin,
Very interesting stuff. Your reference to the "decadent civilization being ruled by a dominate elite of authoritarian incompetents imposing their dictates by forc"e reminded me of a very interesting article i read last evening from the most recent issue of Orion Mag. It discusses among other things the nature of the barbaric heart and its contribution to the situation discussed in this excellent post. give it a read and i believe you will agree Curtis White has put his finger on one of the other aspects of our situation which must be addressed if mankind is to escape its present predicament. The link: http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/4680/

Well, that's an article that waxes lyrical with description of a concept rather than trying to define it and advance methodical statements therefrom. The "Barbaric Heart" does seem to correspond substantially with the concept of highly authoritarian personality/mentality, as opposed to the creative/cooperative mentality. In game theory one might characterise their innate disposition as cynical parasite versus trusting co-operator. The authoritarian mentality (evaluating things by authority status, and conformity thereto) tends to go with preoccupation with machiavellian status advancement, whereas the low-authoritarian mentality tends to go with being a useful contributor instead.

This dimension of individual differences is largely innate however. You can't reprogram the domineerers to become less status-obsessed, less conforming, or more socially-contributive and co-operative. They just have to be cast off their pedestals (as will happen of its own accord once the system collapses and their lack of any actually useful talents, rather than domineering others, becomes starkly obvious).

Hi Robin,

I agree that there are missing references here (Bateson, Mead, Benedict, Polanyi come to mind). I'll apologize in advance of being ignorant of Toynbee along with most other things.

I'm curious if there are any agreed-upon definitions of words like "brittle" and "resilient" within the context of culture? Specifically, both this paper and the Transition movement talk about the concept of resilience as the ability of a system to absorb or respond to external or internal shocks without disintegrating. There, now that resilient is defined...

What measures of brittle and resilient are possible, from the domains of ecology, physics, social sciences, etc?

Having just finished Polanyi's Great Transformation and now resuming Bataille's The Accursed Share, I'm finding it harder and harder to buy any of the underlying assumptions of market capitalism: that markets behave in any particular regular way, that prices reflect anything, that trade is always positive, that the nation is the logical economic unit, and so on. Yet these are taken as axiomatic many places, including, on occasion, here at TOD.

Benedict's Patterns of Culture may be instructive here, showing that there are many possible approaches to culture, without necessarily showing why.

To continue the thought...

The Permaculture, and therefore Transition, concept is inherently geared toward re-localization as a means of managing on-site energy (Zone system). And somewhere up above a commentator suggested Toynbee remarked that small "primitive" societies were likely to be longer lived (more resilient?) than civilization or empire.

I'm looking for counter-arguments to assumption I have that small is beautiful. I'm aware of (and skeptical of) but not conversant with Ricardo's theories on free trans-national trade as well as (and more accepting of) his theories on diminishing returns.

What I like about this paper is it gives a bit more intellectual heft to the Transition Movement. On the other hand, Transitioners are doing the work of cultural transtion right now, if only on a very teeny scale.

The Permaculture, and therefore Transition, concept is inherently geared toward re-localization as a means of managing on-site energy (Zone system). And somewhere up above a commentator suggested Toynbee remarked that small "primitive" societies were likely to be longer lived (more resilient?) than civilization or empire.

While I wouldn't want to make myself out as expert on this, my understanding is that there is a very big difference between a continent of small primitive tribe societies (or of barbarian wargangs) and a continent such as medieval Europe. In both cases there would be extreme localisation; for instance Bede (inventor of footnotes and the modern year dating system) never travelled more than a handful of miles from where Newcastle now is. But Bede and the rest of his society were part of a wide-ranging organised setup, not least the Rome-based Christian Church. King Henry 2 penanced himself for the death of Thomas Becket, the Pope's representative. There was a widespread culture of architecture, music and language (and a lot more presumably) but in a context where very few people or things travelled more than a few miles. (Actually the example of Bede above is a bit premature, as the European civilisation did not really form till later.)
Medieval Europeans were generally not even free to relocate from their villages.

I'm looking for counter-arguments to assumption I have that small is beautiful.

A serious downside of the small is that it may lack a broader perspective, and especially the scientific perspective. For instance it may fail to understand important threats such as desertification, deforestation, or global warming. The Greenlanders were doomed by their lack of the scientific knowledge of vitamin D.

Having your small group within a larger civilisation obviously helps there.

the Transition Movement. On the other hand, Transitioners are doing the work of cultural transition right now, if only on a very teeny scale.

History is full of wrong turnings, grand projects which resulted in failure. The seige of Stalingrad, the Paris Communes, etc ad nauseam. The Trans Towns Movement is partly right, but in real life a score of 60% doesn't get you a "C" grade but a fail instead. TTers are too determined to be optimistic and inclusive, planning for a smooth transition which can never happen. They have no plan B for catastrophic collapse (which I and others consider the almost cert future). They fail to understand scaleability, or that most humans are not great co-operators and many are vile crooks, and that only a small minority have the judicous ingenuity to get through turbulent times alive. Where was Rob Hopkins's "collective genius of the community" when a Nazi army of 3 million marched into Russia?

In 1969, the United States came to the end of a four-decade decline in income inequality and poverty.

This may be true, but several years later (1973), real wages peaked (forever) in the USA. So that 4 decade decline started right up again...

Nate, either I am missing your point or you missed the point of the sentence you copied. The end of decline in income inequality and poverty means that thereafter income inequality and poverty stabilized or increased, or put another way incomes of average folks declined. The original sentence is a bit confusingly put.

ahh. thanks. I should know better than to comment at 3 in the morning after undercooking fiddleheads...

Inequality has increased since 1970s...

Do undercooked fiddleheads have some psychotropic qualities I didn't know about. I'm going to have to try some ;-)

No - but the example is relevant to this post (which espouses the benefit of information and internet). We harvested alot of fiddleheads yesterday -first time. I looked at the FIRST recipe on google which indicated to steam them for 5 minutes. We got quite sick. I looked at a bunch more recipes and all said that they needed to be boiled/blanched thoroughly to remove the shikimic acid, otherwise there were many cases of people getting sick. Needless to say, I will need n=3 advice on any future foraging recipes.

Internet is great place but lots of crap too...

While you are already sitting in front of the computer, the incremental time and energy invested is nominal. Whenever I look up something new, I always check at least three sources.

Raw Fiddleheads and very tasty and certainly psycotrophic.

..

IMO we are in a desperate race. A race to a somewhat distant 'tipping point'. That being the point of which enough destruction to the habitat,wildlife and the resources of this planet are such that even a remnant might not be able to become sustainable.

Will this economy collapse soon enough? Will the FF resources decline in time? Will there be enough wildlife with enough DNA diversity to make a comeback?
Is too much of what once was disappeared already such that nothing of value can remain? The oceans dead zones going to continue enlarging?
The chemicals, endocrine disruptors and pollution so widespread that nothing can stop the ineveitable?

The woodlands so decimated and voracious insect pests so far beyond the horizon that there will be not enough left to matter?

As I look out over the woodlands of my area I see huge tracts totally decimated. Some say that they will become diseased and infected and we will have almost nothing left. I can believe that.

It breaks ones apart to see such widespread destruction. As I speak of this the tornado warnings are being issued. Mother nature is still dealing with this once almost pristine timber. I still have a yard full of huge limbs and fallen branches.

Even the snakes are confused such that a Chicken snake lay in my path yesterday and even the dogs walked over it. It was full of young and seeking any haven to birth them in. I picked it up and it was almost unable to move. It was senseless it seemed with confusion.
The day before that a huge black snake had invaded my porch and would not leave. It was seeking some kind of shelter.

Right now the hail is falling heavily. I have to go shut things down.

Airdale

Airdale old buddy you need a stiff drink.We ALL need a stiff drink drink.Things are bad,no doubt, and I expect them to get a lot worse.I personally don't think that we will slip all the way back to the stone age,but I do recognize that it could happen.

But old Mother Nature is going to survive even if we fire off most of our atom bombs.Whether WE survive in that case is open to serious doubt but a few of us might make it.

You basically almost answered your own question,by asking if the econony will collapse soon enough.If it does collapse,we uppity naked apes will die off far faster than mice rats, crows, and racoons.My guess is that unless we get a few very lucky and very timely breaks,things will get so tense over the next ten to twenty years that we will more or less wipe ourselves out in the Last Big War.

If the economy does not collapse,we are making and will continue to make some progres towards preserving enough of the natural landscape that mother Nature can reseed herself once the population begins to decline. I am hopeful that the trend towards a lower and lower birthrate will continue and expand into those parts of the world where women still have lots of babies,and I believe that very thing will happen if ironically the very thing that has brought us to the brink-excessive growth and consumption-lasts just a little longer.

..

This deserves a more thorough reading that I can give at this time, but a couple of initial comments;

Our worldview is unstated, deeply felt, and unquestioned.

There are many disagreements about fundamental directions in most democracies, so perhaps some clarity is required with regards to this statement.

Put more bluntly, can the transition occur without societal collapse?

This precisely the objective of the Transition Towns movement, which seeks to help communities transition to a more resilient and relocalized economy.

The movement is organized around each community or district working through 12 Steps.

A terrific article, covers a lot of areas I have often hunted for solutions to. I liked, as only one example, the statement

we have failed to adapt our current socioecological regime from an empty world to a full world.

That captures the issue in a nutshell, as do many other of the thoughts expressed. Particularly liked also the promotion of a true democracy system to replace our present failing plutocracy.

Kudos.

"We come to Cuba. Cuba is no utopia. But it has been able to at least address some of the ecological and resource issues that are now confronting the world. And at least part of the reason lies in the fact that they are not obliged to maximize profits."

Pure BS. Have you ever traveled to Cuba? Have you ever traveled out of the areas that are for tourists? Leave the resorts and travel the country side and towns. The way they address the ecological and resource issues is by being very poor and having food shortages, as well as shortages of medicine and just about every thing else. Being poor is not they answer to "ecological resource" issues. I suggest you travel to Haiti to witness, first hand, what an ecological disaster poverty can cause.

The Cubans have no choice but to accept their lot. Well, actually they do, they can be imprisoned or attempt to flee.

Go see for yourself and talk to the people of Cuba. All you have to do is buy a plane ticket from Mexico to go to Cuba. They won't stamp your US passport. I would not take any pictures and be careful you don't talk to any die heart party members. They are usually easy to spot, they are dressed better and usually 20 or more lbs. heavier that the rest of the people. (Or they are wearing uniforms.)

Does this mean you've been to Cuba and have spent serious time with more than a few non-tourist communities?

@puhkwn

Pure BS. Have you ever traveled to Cuba? Have you ever traveled out of the areas that are for tourists? Leave the resorts and travel the country side and towns. The way they address the ecological and resource issues is by being very poor and having food shortages, as well as shortages of medicine and just about every thing else. Being poor is not they answer to "ecological resource" issues. I suggest you travel to Haiti to witness, first hand, what an ecological disaster poverty can cause.

From the tone of your post, it sounds as though you might have an ax to grind. Have you been to Cuba lately? Are you from Cuba originally?

I'm no authority on Cuban living. So if you have some knowledge of life at present in Cuba, please fill us in.

With a few exceptions travel to Cuba is illegal. Okay? I traveled to Cuba as part of a farm/farmer/food delegation once. I have a "friend" who has been to Cuba quite a few times and yes, he has been there recently. There are many, many misconceptions and falsehoods about Cuba that cause me to cringe. Cuba is slowly falling apart and there is nothing sustainable or wonderful about it. Hard currency via tourism is the only thing that is barely keeping the country afloat.

Yeah, Cuba has "free" medical care and lots of doctors but of what use is all this if you have a broken limb and the X-ray machine has been broken for the last 15 years? Ever been to a drug store that had no aspirin or Pepto-Bismol? Make sure you bring your own sheets to the hospital and if you need an injection the odds are good that they will have to reuse a disposable needle.

Every staple food item is strictly rationed. Beans, rice, cooking oil, you name it. The amounts are pathetic. I believe if one looks a bit closer at the Cuban experience one would find there is very little worth emulating or worthwhile.

I'm a little confused by this response, reminds me of "our way of life is non negotiable".
If one accepts that our societies must and will (ready or not) adapt to less fossil fuel inputs, then surely the current state of cuba is about the best we could hope for?
You complain about medical standards and food supply - and the future of the USA with drastically reduced fuel imports will be different, somehow?
What I take from the Cuban experience is to postion myself to able to supply much of my own nutrition and medical care, including finding out about bone-setting, autoclaving and making xray machines.
Maybe somebody working in the Airport security industry could donate some unused bag xray machines to cuba ..

If one accepts that our societies must and will (ready or not) adapt to less fossil fuel inputs, then surely the current state of cuba is about the best we could hope for?

This is the kind of idea that just baffles me. Where do people get the idea that adapting to less FF inputs necessarily means poverty?

Renewable electricity, electric transportation and HVAC, plant sources for plastic and a small amount of liquid fuel - it's all very, very doable.

I don't think anyone from the US is in any position to judge what is poverty. We live so far outside what is remotely sustainable, our judgments are always going to be hopelessly skewed.

Cuba is far from paradise, but at this point paradise is not really in the cards.

Cuba does do better than the US in certain basic measures of human wellbeing such as infant mortality rates and literacy.

I think much of Cuba's ecological "virtue" is essentially accidental, and if they can get more oil, they will burn it up as fast as they can.

But it can be an indication of what is and isn't possible, perhaps, with limited use of resources.

I too know people who have visited Cuba and have gotten outside of the tourist areas, and they have a very different impression-no where near ideal, but at least what little they have, they try to share somewhat equitably.

I'll have to look around for the website, but a couple years ago the World Wildlife Fund did a study that found Cuba to be the only country in the world that met both certain minimum standards of living and basic standards of sustainability. Again, even though this may be partly or largely result of historical accident, it is well worth looking into.

I wasn't really talking about Cuba. I was just talking about the question of whether FFs can be replaced in a reasonably straightforward fashion.

Do examples exist of any complex culture higher than hunter gathering level successfully transitioning through a serious resource crisis ?

We know that most make it through short famines and even serious problems like the black death.

So cultures can be resilient and also collapse. Can we identify the differences between success and failure.

Can we identify the differences between success and failure?

Yes. The differences are always matters of scale, scope, and context, or what most people would call perspective. The problem lies in the fact that changing perspective does not change reality, only what we perceive, think, feel, and do about it.

To enlist the study of earlier cultures along the path of technological evolution may not provide many analogies that can be applied to our present predicament. Cultures, if they can be defined geographically and by language, seem to feed and grow like organisms, reach their limits and seek conquest of neighboring but distinct cultures in preference to devouring their own. Disease, warfare and famine are natural governors to their aspirations. Cooperation in devouring the great fossil fuel carcass may be replaced in time by our more war-like propensities. Even though we have progressed technologically, I'm not sure that we are now more civilized than in pre-technological times.

Imagine a hot-plate below and above a heat sink much like our atmosphere. Between the two the energy flows upwards in various structures as heat dissipates. (Think hurricane from climatology and in a roundabout way think organisms in the ecosystem.) The energy flows become well-defined and somewhat resilient as with species and our corporations that relentlessly defend their energy-profit skim. The only way to change those flows of energy is for 1) to run out of fuel and thereby the structure dies; 2) run out of heat sink and thereby the structure dies or 3) a major force as in punctuated equilibrium disturbs the energy flow so that a new paradigm may come into existence. We can slowly run out of fuel and technological society will starve to death. We can move the average temperature of the planet well beyond the temperature at which current enzymes are evolved to work with global warming. We can voluntarily have our own punctuated equilibrium event and try to transition in a sudden and violent way. I think it's way too late for a slow transition. When we should be having our life-saving punctuated equilibrium event, we are instead depleting all of our fuels and trying to immolate ourselves in defense of the magical kingdom that fossil fuels built.

To answer both posts first 710 I'm quite happy defining survival of a culture as a retreat to enclaves where the majority of the cultures knowledge is saved to be used in later better times.
Thus I consider that after the fall of Rome enough roman culture and knowledge was saved that it did not really end. But I see it as a transition in the eastern roman empire eventually to moslem then back to the west. The west certainly collapsed but the eastern empire really was swallowed eventually by a technical equal.

Dopamine I agree it may be to much to look at pre technical civilizations even with resonably basic machine skills we can make potent enough weapons to allow very bloody wars to rage for a long time.

As I've written in the past I expect enclaves to form that retain most of our current technology levels but on the same hand this opens up the strong possibility that these enclaves will become weapon factories arming freedom fighter/terrorists depending on your viewpoint to destabilize other enclaves.

These enclaves can readily become stable using hydro, wind, coal, nuclear etc to keep some sort of technical civilization going.

Thus I guess the question really becomes do we have examples where humanity did not choose this route ?

To my knowledge no such example exists if not then I think what we are really talking about is trying to make a enclave that chooses not to engage in tit for tat wars at some scale but to develop a new technically advanced civilization thats damages our plant far less than our current one.

This does not mean that the solution is not the same as what the entire world should do just that the scope may be limited for some time.

Maybe the best example we have is the Amish ? They pick and choose the technologies they accept and seem to be successful.

With the collapse of Rome, if not before, the Hellenic religion of Zeus-Olympus came to an very dead end. Replaced by Christianity. That's a huge cultural change. Plus the latin language no longer the vernacular. Plus a ton more I'll bet, no more togas or bathhouse tradition for example. (PS-The notion of Islam preserving the classical culture is a joke; just the papyrus that all rotted in damp Europe was preserved by the dryness of Egypt (and Arabia).)

The notion of Islam preserving the classical culture is a joke

And yet they made astonishing advances in Mathematics, Mechanics, Architecture, Navigation, Astronomy, Medicine, Irrigation.
Are you sure they hadn't been reading plato, aristotle, cicero, etc?

Introduction of real democracy? Some people write books, tending to end with "we ought to do blah". I don't. I studied in 'silence' for many years the problem of the defective political/selection systems. Only after decades did I work out a practical project, and registered a political party, the Real Democracy Party. First I had to write the handbook of the project before launching it. The book is here http://www.lulu.com/content/140930 , titled The Future is Here! A practical handbook for solving the key crisis of our times. I'd just finished that book when I was deluged by a horrendous harassment conspiracy www.2020housing.co.uk , ending with liar judges making me suddenly homeless. By the time I'd started to recover from that it was becoming clear that my project to revolutionise national political systems had been overtaken by events on the energy supply front.

Furthermore the extensiveness of incorrigibly riggable electronic vote machines is such that a revolutionary party can no longer win a fair election in the "free" world.

It is now too late to think of "real democracy", of turfing out the criminalocracy. Their world is about to collapse anyway. We have to concentrate on preparing our lifeboats to ride the coming waves. We will have enough to think about just surviving without the luxury of niceities of political legitimacy and so on.

This is a fascinating example of the difficulty of changing world views.

30 years ago, it was perfectly reasonable to write off wind and solar power as unable to provide the energy needed to replace fossil fuels.

Now, it's pretty clear that wind and solar power can indeed replace FF, and yet we still see "Although the development of alternative energy sources is a priority, no currently feasible alternative can sustain the current rate of global economic growth.". This statement doesn't even acknowledge the possibility that wind, sun and other low-CO2 sources (nuclear, geothermal, etc) could scale up.

30 years ago it was perfectly reasonable to talk about population growing forever - now fertility rates are below replacement in the majority of the world, and it's pretty clear that absolute population levels will level off very, very roughly 50 years from now.

30 years ago it was perfectly reasonable to assume that affluent civilizations, continuing on their current path, would increase their resource consumption forever - now it's pretty clear that resource consumption levels off naturally at some point. For example, light vehicle sales leveled off in the US in the 1970's. And yet, we still see statements like "Unending physical growth of the economy is only possible within a system unconstrained by any biophysical limits."

When you've built up an entire approach around something, it's hard to shift course. How does ecological economics re-orient to include these changes? Perhaps by trying to be a little less simplistic and sweeping. It's a bit less satisfying to acknowledge that one's approach is not the holy grail, which "changes everything", but it might be more useful.

I found the article excellent and believe it was designed and written targeting an audience not yet well versed and convinced of the severity and vulnerability of our current global civilization around the issues discussed. I read the article putting myself in the shoes of an uneducated skeptic and found it compelling. Well done.

I am not so pessimistic as many here seem to be at our collective culture being unable to make a transition. We all have to remember that the consequences that will force transition haven't yet expressed themselves. Threats abound but none have hit us up side the head yet. We need to remember that. Threats are not catalysts. Real consequences are.

We should be paying attention also to some of the intangibles. Even though our society is continuing business as usual doesn't mean that there isn't a collective intuition or subconsious sense that we are somehow threatened and vulnerable? Is societies reaction to the recent flu pandemic threat not an indicator of this collective unease?

How many individuals suffer immense personal crisis like job loss or family loss and rebound or adapt with a lot less wealth afterwards? How many countries go through economic collapse (Argentina), are immensely challenged but continue to persevere?

History repeats itself but always surprises. I give a lot more credence to posts and discussions that are comfortable with the uncertainty of the future and aren't crystalized in their opinions about a certain outcome.

Some of the posters here who argue about the hopelessness of our culture to transition and state this with such certainty I can't help but hold with the same suspicion as the cornucopians that don't see the warning signs.

We very well may surprise ourselves and we may very well plunge into collapse. I feel really comfortable keeping an open mind around a full spectrum of possibilities going forward. That seems very adaptive considering the fact that we will experience major disruptions to our status quo.

+1
well said. we don't know. and we have to try.

Hmm, I hesitate to differ (especially where Nate is involved!), but.
I do to a point agree with Ibon that we should not close our minds to possibilities. We should not close off possibilities without good reason. But there are indeed good reasons to dismiss certain outcomes as far more unlikely.
History teaches us of great civilisations that have catastrophically collapsed. We see same symptoms now as in the past. Most especially, utterly useless "leaders" oppressing those who have the talents that would get us out of this tremendous mess. We are far into population overshoot. There is no nice way of managing a downsizing, it rarely works at all smoothly. We have become almost all extremely dependent on a monopoly corporate system that is on point of collapse. We have massively forgotten the millenia of skills that enabled us to survive pre-corporately.

The notion that people will be awakened by the crisis in due course is misguided. They needed to be awakened 20 years ago as Hirsch said. By the time they can hear the thunder it's too late.

It has to be unrealistic to think that some outcome can come from where we are now that does not contain a huge amount of grief and hardship. Significant questions arise as to whether the human race will survive at all given a planet of nukes and other nasties no longer being safeguarded by a global civilisation of present scientific competence.

I'm all ears to anyone who can show me a credible way through this quagmire but all I'm hearing so far is wishful thinking and silence.

There is no painless or credible way through this quagmire but I will suggest that with each painful consequence there will be a chiselling away at status quo assumptions. This will create a feedback so that the decline will not remain linear all the way down. Herein lies the surprises we cannot see today....maybe. Its hard to know how the culture will respond all the way down the slope toward collapse. But I will guess that it will not remain a constant. We do change. We change everyday.

We assume that our culture or our economic system or religious beleifs are intractably fixed. But they have remained resilient and endured simply because nothing has come along until now to persuade us otherwise. It is not the arguments of scientists or visionaries who move the status quo. It is the real life consequences. I think many people who see their arguments falling on dead ears (some since decades) come to the conclusion that society isn't listening and is therefore unresponsive or in denial. But for decades these have been warnings not real consequences. WE might be making assumptions that since society has ignored our arguments and warnings that society is intractable in the face of peak oil and other tipping points due to having exceeded our carrying capacity.

Again, I am not suggesting a way through this quagmire that will be painless. Anything painless after all doesn't fit the criteria of a catalyst for change. We need the horrific consequences. Just don't assume a linear fixed status quo in denial all the way down the slope once the consequences start. Who knows?

Ibon, were you replying to my comment?

Nick, No not specifically. If I had to single out anyone it would probably be RobinPC who expresses the most determined conviction of hopelessness.

Ibon: I don't see the position I describe as one of hopelessness. My position is one of purposeful forward-looking. For this, I begin by analysing "what is/not going to happen anyway". Only once one has set those limits of the possible(/likely) can one start to plan a course through the remaining options, hazards and opportunities.

Having now come to a fairly sure conclusion that the corporate/commercial system is going to collapse quite soon, I then can start to focus on a lifeboat plan away from urban zones where at best only a few of the most thuggish will/might survive.

WE might be making assumptions that since society has ignored our arguments and warnings that society is intractable in the face of peak oil and other tipping points

Excuse me. Society has not got a brain so is incapable of "ignoring" anything. There is a multiplicity of individuals, who cannot be usefully thus lumped together as "society".

There's an abundance of evidence pointing to intractability of the majority of individuals -- in line with the universal story of Noah's Ark.
An important finding of marketing science is that people buy cures, they rarely buy prevention. In fact huge numbers splash out on the very opposite of prevention: tobacco, alcohol, sugary/acid drinks, trash 'food', irradiating themselves in the sunlight without a hat. And all those who are relaxing now the energy prices are going back down.

Much historical experience backs up Planck's statement that a theory does not triumph by changing the minds of its opponents but only because those opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up open to the new ideas.
This especially applies to fundamental societal ideological paradigms such as "growth is good and we need more of it to solve our problems"; and "with enough money and ideas we can overcome mere physical limits".

Toynbee has a chapter titled "the illusion of immortality" (of the society in which the illuded persons live).
The Institute of Ideas (no less) is this month having a "Battle for the Economy" conference whose distinguished? speakers say not a single word about energy.

These "leaders" will go down with the ship. Most of the most "successful" people will be psychologically wiped out (as observed by Dmitri Orlov) as on losing their peenyse extensions of cars, 'status' and other "wealth" they experience an incurable bleeding wound in their self-concept.
The McSheep majority will find themselves marooned without a compass. Only a small minority, of "Noah"-type individuals capable of thinking for themselves, are likely to cope at all well.

I enjoy your enthusiasm, yet I see things from a vastly different perspective.

I can't say I'm pessimistic about our culture. First, it's realism that wants to do something about the way things actually are, not pessimism. Second, and more importantly, this is not our culture.

In saying this isn't our culture, I mean that we, the many of us who are limits- and collapse-aware, do not share many of the same values, mindsets, lifestyles, goals, or rituals of the 6.7 billion at large. What we share as a culture, humanity worldwide, is an agreement of monetary exchange, reliance on cheap energy, the understanding that "more is better", and not much else. We do not share religious beliefs, education, politics, or government, and our "kinship" to family and local environments is flimsy at best.

And as the conversation progresses toward changing minds, we become like religious missionaries to other people, trying to explain our One Right Way. This amidst a cacophony of many other One Right Ways.

And if we look for catalysts to implement change, then we are talking about Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine" and implementing the tools of disaster capitalism, using trauma to shoe-horn our ideas into people's heads.

And if we talk about resiliency and the ability to bounce back from a crisis, this discussion will be without having a psychic present to talk to the dead, leaving us with no perspective on survivor bias. Or luck, for that matter.

And though history doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme and it is on shuffle, the only reason we cling to an idea about "uncertainty" is to engender hope. Hope is just about the worst thing you can do, it's a self-administered drug that pacifies. It's the adult version of wishing. And it's a substitute for the only things that can solve problems, those being critical thinking, emotional awareness, and action.

What we are talking about is an evolutionary shift, yes. Most people seem to think that means adaptation, no. On the contrary, it usually means that vast numbers have died and are no longer part of the population. No-one adapted to the 1917-18 Spanish Flu, instead many people with inadequate immune systems died, with the survivors being selected by the event and environment as having more suitable immune responses.

We will have the same process of adaptation in a collapse. Selected by the circumstances, some people will be suitable to survive the crash, most will not.

But if we want a cultural shift, we already have one, right here. I'll be willing to bet that most posters and readers of TOD and the energy blogs were raised in linear, fragmented, wasteful, myopic, growth- and profit-driven cornucopian environments, yet we are now pursuing radically different paths to those dominant cultural ideas.

Just because we do what they do and we look like they look, it does not mean we are what they are.

If you want to expand that cultural shift, with the understanding that you can't reach everyone, here's an idea. You need the six principles of interpersonal influence as described by Robert Cialdini in "Influence: Science and Practice". And you need to write a story, or many stories, like the ones told by Daniel Quinn, which undo broken ideas and replace them with functional ones.

Integrate the stories and their telling with principles of influence, and you have a powerful tool.

I agree with Nate that we have to try, but trying involves a certain amount of failures in the attempts, and each failure uses up time and resources, and we are already running out of both. This on a poisoned planet with a human population in overshoot by an order of magnitude.

I'm all for the trying, as long as it also includes trying to get the hell out of the way of the avalanche of collapse. In time. In one piece. With sufficient resources. And sanity.

Exxxxx comment, 710.

Nick, solar and wind have always been reasonable. Thinking otherwise is part of what got us into this mess. Talking about growth in population and consumption going on forever has always been quite unreasonable.

I'm not sure what you mean by "resource consumption levels off naturally." Do you mean peak everything and extinction?

Nick, solar and wind have always been reasonable.

True.

Talking about growth in population and consumption going on forever has always been quite unreasonable.

uhmm, but that's my point: no one is really suggesting that's either desirable or likely.

I'm not sure what you mean by "resource consumption levels off naturally." Do you mean peak everything and extinction?

I mean that as people get enough "stuff", their consumption levels off. Most people don't want more than one car per person, very roughly, and the number of cars sold in the US levelled off 30 years ago. Most people don't want more than one washer/dryer. Most people don't want a house of infinite size - too much space to dust!

Perhaps, but cars and housed do get bigger, and people do get second houses, cabins, investment properties...

And of course the very wealthy somehow keep finding ways of getting super wealthier and finding ways to spend all that new super wealth--buy a yacht, a jet, two....

The whole economy is built on the premise that people will consume more and more forever, and the marketing industry--which spends more money every year convincing us to buy more crap than is spent on all of higher education--is dedicated to keeping this eternal spiral of ever-increasing consumption going.

Only economic collapse and worse seems to put a damper on this growth.

cars and housed do get bigger

They have. For most people,though, there's a limit - they want a certain size, and no more. For instance, a lot of people down-size when their children leave: they just don't need the space anymore.

people do get second houses, cabins,

Some do. But again, there's a limit to that - most people don't want to worry about maintaining multiple vacation homes.

investment properties...

That's not consumption - someone else lives there.

The whole economy is built on the premise that people will consume more and more forever

No. It may be built on expanding sales, but those sales can be ipods and MP3s, and other services. Healthcare, education, etc. Expanding resource consumption isn't necessary.

It may or may not be necessary, but it seems to be ongoing. Your argument reminds me a bit of the talk in the late '90's that the information economy meant that we could grow the economy while reducing consumption and its ills.

That didn't seem to pan out so well.

And since when are ipods not consumption? Just because they are tiny doesn't mean that a whole lot of dirty mining of metals and toxic processes don't go into their manufacture and disposal.

A Nick of a century ago might have claimed that once most people have homes, food and clothes, there will be no more consumption because all of their needs will be fulfilled.

But then came cars, washing machines, dryers, radios, TVs, microwaves, computers, ipods, cell phones....

All of these were once considered enormous luxuries or barely imaginable science fiction props. They are now considered necessities by most people in the developed world. Do you suppose that this creation of necessities is likely to end "naturally." Just because you cannot imagine what else a person could want, doesn't mean industry isn't busily figuring out what the next necessary luxury will be.

The very idea that there is some "natural" limit to the human capacity for desire (especially when that human desire is constantly fanned with the millions of commercial messages we receive each year) strikes me as just unbelievably blinkered and naive. But maybe I am missing your meaning.

It may or may not be necessary, but it seems to be ongoing.

Well, that's an important distinction. If we can agree that growth in resource consumption isn't necessary, that's an achievement in consensus building and development of our shared "world model".

That didn't seem to pan out so well.

What do you mean? The US uses less oil than it did then. For many resources, our consumption has levelled off.

Just because [ipods] are tiny doesn't mean that a whole lot of dirty mining of metals and toxic processes don't go into their manufacture and disposal.

uuuhhhhh,huh? They're tiny. That, pretty much by definition, means that not much was needed to manufacture them.

A Nick of a century ago might have claimed that once most people have homes, food and clothes, there will be no more consumption because all of their needs will be fulfilled.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it's an observable fact, that many physical needs level off. People can only eat so many calories. Growth in car sales tapered off 30 years ago.

I'm also not saying that sales of new cars stop - just that they stop growing. Given that about 90% of scrapped car materials are recycled, that's not bad.

But then came cars, washing machines, dryers, radios, TVs, microwaves, computers, ipods, cell phones....

If you look at all of these, you'll see that sales have matured, and growth has pretty much stopped.

The very idea that there is some "natural" limit to the human capacity for desire

Yes, you've missed my meaning. I'm talking about resource consumption, and the kinds of large, physical items that need them. We can observe that sales of these items level off, and stop growing.

OK, you win.

There is 0% chance that anyone will come up with a new invention that everyone will decide is a necessity. The history of such inventions coming one after the other throughout the last hundred years (again: cars, washing machines, dryers, radios, televisions....flat screen TVs, Hummers, jetskis...) is totally irrelevant to the short or long term future.

No more inventions will be made ever; and if they are, they will not be marketed to anyone; and if they are, no one will desire to buy them since humans have reached their "natural" limit of desire for stuff.

I am completely and totally convinced of the utter sagacity of this position--rock solid logic. Good for you.

Well, if you just want to have a polarized discussion, and not get anywhere, that's up to you.

Let's look at your examples:

cars

These are pretty old: chariots, carriages, horse-less carriages (aka the "car")...

washing machines, dryers

Sales of these stabilized decades ago.

radios, televisions

ditto.

flat screen TVs

You'll notice TV's are getting thinner and thinner, and using less power.

Hummers, jetskis

Necessities?? OTOH, not only stabilized, but falling.

Would you agree that sales of large, physical consumer items in the OECD have, in general, stopped growing?

Sure, we might invent something new - but it's not likely to be considered a "necessity", and even if it is, it's sales, too, will eventually mature.

You seem to continually completely miss my point. Hence my reversion to satire.

That sales of most of my examples stabilized years ago is completely irrelevant to my argument. The point is that once they stabilize, industrial capitalism, with its infinite inventiveness and persuasiveness, seems always able to come up with a new product that becomes a "must buy" for some or nearly all of the populous of advance countries.

Maybe that process has stopped. I don't know, though is seems unlikely given historical precedent. I don't claim to know the future for a certainty. You seem to.

The main point though is that after each of the inventions mentioned, people could have claimed very convincingly, "Ah, now all of people's reasonable desires have been fulfilled and we have naturally reached a plateau of consumption" and while this may have been true of the item mentioned, it turned out not to be true in general because a new item always seemed to come along.

The "natural" plateau, if there is one, is not because human material desire has some "natural" end point, but because incomes have plateaued and now resources and ecological sinks are plateauing.

Perhaps those facts make this a rather academic distinction. You seem to have a blind spot here, perhaps ideological or emotional. It may strike too close to the core of your philosophy. Or maybe I am being dense and missing something in your argument.

Is there some author who has developed and more fully explained this concept of a natural plateau of human material desire that you are defending so that perhaps I can get further clarity on the position?

You seem to continually completely miss my point.

I feel that you're missing mine. I assure you, it's just as frustrating for me.

That sales of most of my examples stabilized years ago is completely irrelevant to my argument.

No, it's not. If you were to chart per-capita mineral resource consumption in the US, you'd see that they leveled off or started declining (and did so well before the current Great Recession). Oil, iron, aluminum, wood, food commodities, etc, etc. That's because sales of all of the large, physical items that you can think of have levelled off.

industrial capitalism, with its infinite inventiveness and persuasiveness, seems always able to come up with a new product that becomes a "must buy" for some or nearly all of the populous of advance countries.

Not really. Homes predated the industrial revolution. So did carriages ("cars"). Some things were new, like home appliances, but there haven't been any large new home appliances (that sold in extremely large volume) in quite a while.

Maybe that process has stopped. I don't know, though is seems unlikely given historical precedent. I don't claim to know the future for a certainty. You seem to.

Not any more than an oil analyst does when looking at a Hubble curve. Do we know that US oil production can't recover? Well, just looking at the production curve is pretty convincing. I think the same analysis applies to US resource consumption.

The "natural" plateau, if there is one, is not because human material desire has some "natural" end point, but because incomes have plateaued and now resources and ecological sinks are plateauing.

No. People simply have enough cars, washer dryers, home Sq Ft, etc, etc. Car sales plateaued 30 years ago.

Is there some author who has developed and more fully explained this concept of a natural plateau of human material desire that you are defending so that perhaps I can get further clarity on the position?

hmmm. Here's one: "In the last decade the share of animal products has only increased in fast growing, middle-income countries, but has fallen elsewhere. Given the data uncertainties in the very poor countries, this may be an indication for existing Environmental Kuznets Curves in the food case, similar to the energy case....While the level of calorie consumption still tends to rise with income, the share of animal products in overall diets tends to stagnate or slightly fall in many rich countries."
http://www.populationenvironmentresearch.org/papers/Lotze-Campen_Reusswi... .

Environmental Kuznets curves seem to apply (there was a highly superficial treatment just a day or two ago on TOD). I'll see what else I can find, if I can find the time - there seems to be some research. See what you can find!

Thanks for the links. I'll look into them when I have time. For now we may have to agree to disagree.

I'll just conclude by pointing out again that showing that a particular level of consumption has plateaued does not tell us why it plateaued, and it certainly doesn't prove that there is some kind of mystical or "natural" limit to human material desires.

I suggested the plateauing of income for most Americans in the early seventies (yes, over 30 years ago) may have had something to do with the plateauing of consumption. Your response was to simply say "no" and simply affirm your own stance with no support.

That's not a debate or a discussion. It's a shouting match. One I am not interested in pursuing further.

You are clearly wedded to your position. Stick with it. We all need something to believe in. By the way, I wish it were true. It may, in fact, be true. Who knows? But you have not yet shown it to be, as far as I can see.

There is of course one group that regularly keep buying houses, cars, boats, planes...far beyond what most of us would consider "natural." What can possibly explain this anomaly in your theory? Why would this particular group be immune from this natural and universal limit on human material desire? What a great mystery!

They of course all do happen to be filthy rich and so are able to continually stoke and feed an endless human desire for material goods. But no, that can't be it, since we have now been instructed that no such limitless desire can exist. It must be some mystical defect in what should be an innate and natural limit since it can't possibly have anything to do with their enormous wealth.

Sorry. Slipping into sarcasm again, but really the hole in your theory appear to be so huge as to make it look ridiculous.

Note also that even if the plateauing of resource use in the US was due to some mystical limit to human desires, it would be of little use to sustainability since our plateau is high above what is sustainable. If people are only satisfied with their consumption rates when they use the equivalent of seven earths (if every one consumed at that level), I can't see how that's good news.

I do think it's a good thing that some of the recent "must have" inventions are smaller--lap tops, cell phones, ipods. But then again, if nearly all of the nearly 7 billion people in the world must have these, and a new one every year or two when the old one wears out, we are still looking at an unsustainable system. And of course they haven't in the mean time stopped "needing" new cars, washing machines...every few years.

On one level this is a brilliantly sophisticated summation of our present situation but somehow it doesn't seem as usefully prescriptive as it might be. Perhaps it is just my learned reaction to entirely-academic treatments; I realize the form a paper must take to be published in a prestigious science journal. Even so, while admiring the polished language and conceptual framework, I find it abstract to the point of near-uselessness. Impressive, but impractical.

One might paraphrase the paper "We're using the world up. If we don't get our shit together by thinking and acting in advance, things will be worse than they might otherwise be. So we need to change the way we think and act". This might be an unfairly simplistic comment, but things like "expanding the commons sector" and "redefining well-being metrics" are presented without any real attempt to address how that might happen. Now is the time to act. Indeed it is past time.

Constructs like WITs, etc, don't necessarily clarify our situation.

I mean no disrespect to the authors - on one level it's a brilliant piece and I hope a lot of folks read it - but it makes me wonder what role the academy (or government) will play against the unfolding juggernaut before us. Methinks the answers, if any, are not going to come from the academy. Indeed, what we have is a 'no-analog' situation..

Bottom line: We're at "WIT's" end.

I don't see any turning of the wheel for our technological society. It is inevitable the existing infrastructure is and will decay into uselessness. We're turning all of our fossil fuels into structures and a particular order that cannot be indefinitely sustained. There may be transition, but the concrete exoskeletons of a past reality will mar the landscape for millennia and the total living technomass and human biomass will be substantially less. We are living through the equivalent of an explosion in terms of energy and the technological evolution it enables. When the explosion is over it will be interesting to see what settles back to earth to live on the sustainable energy flow of the sun. I have a feeling we won't be spreading phosphorous on our lawns or be driving vehicles that weigh in the thousands of pounds.

The transition will be an evolutionary process but evolution proceeds with many extinctions and we should begin to put many energy users (wasteful) out of our misery and divert their GDP portion into wind, solar, nuclear, elimination of the personal automobile, mass transit, lifestyle education, and so on. We have to bring a punctuated equilibrium event upon ourselves. How to initiate such a thing, take responsibility for it, and survive it politically is another question.

I expect the new built railways and large highway bridges to both be maintained and stand for 80-120 years they are designed for. Most of them service towns that at their core are older then industrialization and new houses actuella need less firewood for the CHP district power-plants then the pre industrial houses needed for heating. These places makes sense and are worth maintaining.

The rural areas yield significantly more biomass per km2 then what is needed to harvest and maintain the capilary road network and we need those roads to get to the resources. The scaling factors work in favor for the larger roads but there is a layer inbetween that might make more sense as gravel roads then paved with todays paving practices and the Swedish climate.

It will take Venezuela etc quite a while to run out of asphalt and as long as we have industries that manufacture goods based on lots of electricity, biomass and minerals we ought to be able to trade for it. Or we could use cement from arc plasma heated rotary kilns turning MWh into cement.

There will be continous changes in the populations distribution but we have allways had those. I dont see why they society around me must crumble when we can continue investing in making it more sustainable. Its a multi generation effort but a significant number of people and institutions have been working on it for more then a generation.

There will be a transition all right, from biological to artificial. AI gods will tear this planet to shreds for raw materials, so fretting about the fragile state of the ecology is in my opinion, a bit moot.

"AI gods"

Sounds sane to me. (????)

The article was very intellectually interesting. But, no one has asked an obvious question: "Why are the TOD old farts (like me) consistently negative about all the new and improved ideas?"

I think this goes to the root meme of the future. We've been there, done that and society ignored everything. The hippies probably came closest to establishing a viable alternative but they were dead by the late 70's. Certainly, few under 50 had the slightest contact with this "revolution of reality."

I posted my own idea of how a future might play out almost two years ago. http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2598#comment-198259

Todd

I wouldn't call myself an old fart, but I am also somewhat negative about our technological society being able to solve the crunch we're in. As a scientist, I know that much of the technological fixes are mostly hype and are based more on a scientist/engineer/company getting money for the next couple of years than actually producing anything worthwhile. That's how the game is played in a world where people make a living from science.

Even though I'm a youngster, I have learned to be self sufficient. I use mass transit or bicycles regularly when I can. I grew up with parents who grew (and still grow) large gardens and preserve their own food, and I think others would benefit from knowing these skills. Still, I think you are largely right that the current generation does not see these attitudes or skills as truly important because technology teaches us that everything will be better tomorrow; if it didn't, people who rely on science and technology to earn a living wouldn't be around.

Your self sufficiency is by choice. It doesn't matter that the current generation does not see this as important since soon this self suffeciency will be imposed on them through economic, environmental or resource constraints.
Self sufficiency and sustainability by design or default is still sustainability.

As these consequences occur how much appetite do you think the culture at large will have for the continued wasteful consumption that is not directly related to sanitation, shelter, food, and basic transportation? How does economic activity, cultural values and our sense of well being then change? How will the new generation that never knew the self entitlement of their grandparents respond to these new realities. Will the resiliency that has defined our species for the past 1 million years continue under resource constraints or is our resiliency existing only because we have always had healthy ecosystems with abundance around us......How resilient is a bushman or eskimo in marginal human habitats vs say a tribe in equatorial abundance.

The initial chapters are indeed dark as constraints will confront a huge percentage of the human population totally unprepared. Do we just die off like plants that are taken out of a greenhouse and placed suddenly under the desert sun? Or do several decades of severe consequences bring back cultural traits that reinforce frugality and resiliency?

I do not know the answers to these questions let alone how much real available healthy habitat, energy food etc. will be available as consequences unfold. But I am certain many will adapt, by choice or default.

Ibon: I'll (probably foolishly) take your exam.

As these consequences occur how much appetite do you think the culture at large will have for the continued wasteful consumption that is not directly related to sanitation, shelter, food, and basic transportation?
Most will desperately seek to maintain these "entitlements", and to the extent they cannot, will be grievously stressed like being burgled only much more.

How does economic activity, cultural values and our sense of well being then change?

Economic goes into downward spiral, as already. People become very neurotic, short-fused, me-firstish. Culturally, trust and charity diminish, and everyone has to pull their weight, be useful or be dumped (goodbye pompous judges and 'leaders').

How will the new generation that never knew the self entitlement of their grandparents respond to these new realities.
Great question that could probably do with a whole post to itself (Editors please note!). I guess different ages will respond rather differently. And I'll bet some of those 20ish today are going to be sunk if they lose use of their mobiles, mp3s, facebooks.

Will the resiliency that has defined our species for the past 1 million years continue under resource constraints
We've never trashed the whole planet before. This goes beyond historical parallels.

Do we just die off like plants that are taken out of a greenhouse and placed suddenly under the desert sun?
Many individuals will, as I detailed further up.

Or do several decades of severe consequences bring back cultural traits that reinforce frugality and resiliency?
Hopefully yes in respect of the "Noah's" and their associates. This would in Toynbee's terms be a birth of a new civilisation, which is always consequent on substantial group adversity.

many will adapt, by choice or default.
But "adapting by default" is liable to mean death from lack of food, water, salt, warmth etc. Cheers!

Ibon,
"Will the resiliency that has defined our species for the past 1 million years continue under resource constraints or is our resiliency existing only because we have always had healthy ecosystems with abundance around us."
When have any societies had resource abundance? Perhaps when the Amerindians arrived from Siberia for 500 years, then as everywhere for last million years population has been limited by the "limiting" resource, either food, fuel(firewood),water until 1750, when coal and oil were exploited it was because of new technology. Earlier civilization didn't have agriculture oil or coal no more than we have fusion energy although we are surrounded by hydrogen. The hydrogen in sea water is not a resource for us, but it may be for a future civilization.

Prior to 5000 years BC did the society in Egypt have the Nile's water resources? No, not until irrigation technology and agriculture were invented could the flood waters and fertile soil be "used" . Similarly in the new world, Maize was not growing across the prairies for the picking, people had to invent the maize plant, figure out how to sow, weed, fertilize and store the grain.

I don't want to raise your hackles but...

... I have learned to be self sufficient. I use mass transit or bicycles ...

And do you make your own bicycles, trains and buses? Your own electric light, clothes, plates and bowls?

Self sufficiency is impossible for humans. No one is sufficient unto him- or herself. We are all dependent on others. We have to work with that. We can work to reduce our interdependence and to give more than we take, but we will always need others.

Congratulations on trying to remove the goggles placed on you by our society. Learning to "unsee" is the first and biggest step to seeing clearly. Good luck with the journey.

This survey does not include the implications of overshoot and no one being in charge.

The talk here of "design" implies that somebody, some group, has sufficient influence or control to affect the course taken by the rest of us. The talk of "evolution" implies that we will have the luxury of making incremental changes to the way we live in response to a gradual imposition of new challenges.

Both seem unlikely.

Institutions will likely to have to be changed in a context in which many of them will have rapidly stopped working, and in which no one is trusted to say how they should change.

Change can come from surprising places:

Producers and advocates of green technology are taking note. The Defense Department derives 9.8% of its power from alternative sources and is looking to expand use of wind, solar, thermal and nuclear energy. Some believe that the military has the potential to become a catalyst, helping to turn more expensive power sources into financially viable alternatives to coal and petroleum.

"If the military were to go green, I think that this really could achieve some environmental goals, for a very simple reason: the military is so big," said Matthew Kahn, an environmental economist at the UCLA Institute of the Environment.

Although that remains to be seen, Kahn noted that it would not be the first time the military has had a transforming effect on technology. Cellphones, the Global Positioning System and the Internet all have roots in the military.

Some in the green energy sector hope that as the military adopts alternative power sources, the technology will gain broader acceptance among political conservatives.

""Just hearing that their military is embracing this new technology that was thought of as left-of-center is going to swing people's thoughts" about using it, said David Melton, president of Albuquerque-based Sacred Power Corp., which installed some of Ft. Irwin's photovoltaic panels and wind turbines.

Military officials concede that changing an institutional culture that until recently was far from green has sometimes been an uphill battle. But at a time of shrinking defense budgets, they say, commanders are finding that making their facilities more energy-efficient and generating some of their own power can yield significant cost savings."

The Army has more than 12 million acres, including large tracts that cannot be used for military, residential or commercial purposes because they are intended as buffers between bases and the civilian population. Some of that land, Eastin said, would be ideal for a solar array, wind farm or geothermal project. Within 15 years, he predicts, the Army "will be a net energy exporter."

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/environment/la-me-army-green26-2009apr26,0,4417523.story?page=2&track=rss

A green 'military' is kind of an oxymoron don't you think? I suspect they would be green in peacetime and take whatever energy they need during war. Which I suppose is an ecological improvement over taking whatever energy they need during wartime AND peacetime...

As far as the oxymoron goes..I know what you mean. That's the whole point: if the military does it, that takes it out of the realm of treehuggers, makes it a hard-headed business proposition, and gives conservatives permission to pursue it.

As far as the rest: aren't we involved in a war now? I mean, what war bigger than Iraq is going to come along? Russia? China? Canada?

If you read the whole article, I think you'll see that they're looking at a wide range of energy consumption, including energy efficiency. In fact, they're beginning to realize that their current immense refueling needs are a major strategic vulnerability, whether it's tanks, planes, or soldiers.

DARPA is funding R&D of batteries, PV, wind (wind provides 1/3 of Guantanamo's electricity), etc, etc. Everything.

All of this means that whatever they do, they'll use fewer Fossil Fuels.

On topic, see also:

Kallis, G., J. Martinez-Alier, and R. B. Norgaard. 2009. Paper assets, real debts: An ecological-economic exploration of the global economic crisis. Critical Perspectives on International Business, vol 5: 14-25.

Abstract[from authors]

Purpose – This paper sets out to investigate the potential contribution of the inter-disciplinary field of ecological economics to the explanation of the current economic crisis. The root of the crisis is thegrowing disjuncture between the real economy of production and the paper economy of finance.

Design/methodology/approach – The authors trace the epistemological origins of this disjuncture to the myths of economism – a mix of academic, popular and political beliefs that served to explain, rationalise and perpetuate the current economic system.

Findings – The authors recommend ending with economism and developing new collective and
discursive processes for understanding and engaging with ecological-economic systems.

Originality/value – The authors embrace the notion of sustainable de-growth: an equitable and
democratic transition to a smaller economy with less production and consumption.

Keywords Economic depression, Recession, Ecology, Economic theory

Paper type Conceptual paper

Thank you for this paper. It reinforces my belief that there are things to be done, opportunities to explore and regardless of the difficult challenges we face, we have choices.

I do have a question. In the section "Expand the common sector" it said:

Common asset trusts could protect and restore critical natural capital - those resources provided by nature that are in some way essential to human well being.

I understand the context of managing the commons but does this statement implicitly exclude those natural elements that are not "in some way essential to humans?"

As one of the paper's authors, I'm grateful so many have taken the time to offer critiques. I'm particularly grateful to those who've offered references that they feel could have filled in important gaps. The more the merrier! And I will be checking this occasionally, as I just found out Nate posted the article an hour ago.

The goal of the paper, or at least MY goal for the paper (I wrote much of the sections on evolution and transitions), was to offer a theoretical and generalizable framework with which to view the issue of civilizational/cultural/societal evolution. This was a challenging assignment, first because many of the words we are forced to use (civilization, culture, society, etc.) don't have definitions that are universally agreed on among disciplines. Because of this we open ourselves up to a variety of misinterpretations. In hindsight, I wish we did a better job of explicitly defining key terms, but of course hindsight is always 20/20, and the paper's already published, so there you go...

I think the value of the paper comes in bringing up the importance of worldviews, institutions and technologies (the way we define them, again there are no universally agreed on definitions) as traits acted on within an evolutionary context. Social groups with adaptive worldviews, institutions and technologies have a higher probability of persisting. Social groups without adaptive worldviews, institutions and technologies have a lower probability of persisting.

On a personal level, I'm not particularly pessimistic about our future, but I'm not a cornucopian either. I envision many people facing reduced standards of living, perhaps myself included. But a high standard of living isn't the only path to enjoying a high quality of life. So what has to change about my worldview, the institutions I support and the technologies I use on a day-to-day basis to maximize the probability that I can continue enjoying a high quality of life despite the overwhelming potential for a reduced standard of living?

Articles that offer answers are great, but sometimes we need to step back and decide whether we're asking the right questions.

I had written some notes after reading the generally well-written, but utopian sounding paper, but had forgotten to post them!

The paper advances the notion that selection pressures will work in an co-evolutionary way to reward new WITs which may have more adaptive value in the new context of declining energy and resources. Yes, that will tend to happen, but it may prove to be somewhat chaotic in practice rather than gradual. We probably won't jump from the current state seamlessly into a whole-cloth pre-prepared lower-complexity state. I think it's hard to create resilience during stress....

We've created rather the ultimate nonlinear system, and as complexity is lost there will be abrupt periods of discontinuity and phase shift during which a lot of stuff will come undone; it probably isn't enough simply to design and implement new WITs which would function in a lower-energy situation, because they might come apart during episodes of lawlessness and social strife which punctuate the downturn.

Retroactively designing tolerance for discontinuity is difficult in complex systems, I think. Inasmuch as it deals with the resilience/efficiency tradeoff, it will be a hard sell.

Humans do act in a "phase shift" way which is sometimes quite abrupt. For instance, the transition from "as needed" acquisition of supplies to "hoarding behavior" can occur across a population nearly instantaneously and become a much more stable state, abruptly causing huge shortages and inequality. I've even sometimes thought that the Hutu/Tutsi sort of peace/massacre behavior may be a phase shift, as natural as grasshoppers turning into locusts and back again; such abrupt redefinition of groups and acceptable behavior is not uncommon in history. Whether that's true or not, there are many sorts of abrupt and discontinuous societal changes which, while "evolutionary", will certainly seem chaotic from the point of view of holding onto our WITs.

Perhaps the best analogy is with breaking an addiction. A crisis is often required to allow the addicted individual to see and to acknowledge the addiction, and the transition to a post addiction state can be quite traumatic. However with proper knowledge of the process and with care and foresight, the transition can be both relatively smooth and highly rewarding.

I think addiction's a good analogy, and but that fact doesn't give me comfort. I think it will take enormous strength of will to consciously overcome an addiction in a smooth and peaceful way. Are there any cases of societies proactively breaking addictions?

As a final example closely related to the previous point, institutions governing knowledge are competitive, not cooperative. Whether new sources of energy are fusion, solar, wind or geothermal, the limiting factor is knowledge. Knowledge, which actually improves with use, is the ultimate nonrival resource. In the example above, not only would China's adoption of solar technology not limit the use of it by the United States (barring serious constraints on resource inputs), China would most likely improve the technology thus conferring benefits to other users.

I'm not sure we can cast "knowledge" as an unallayed good. For instance, one way a collapse could occur is via the trickling of "toxic" knowledge to ever-smaller groups of people and even individuals. For instance, the posting of the genome of the Spanish Flu to the internet amounted to a colossal leap of faith by academia that nothing but good could come of it. We're reaching the point where the idiosyncratic worldviews of individuals at community colleges are gaining free access to the knowledge to create self-replicating pathogens. Technology is a many-edged sword, and the attitude that everyone should have access to it may in retrospect be seen as a quaint relic of abundant wealth and temporary peace. Moreover, the other species on the planet might be a lot better off if technology were not universal!

Ensure the Well-Being of Populations During the Transition
We must ensure that reductions in economic output and consumption fall on those with the lowest marginal utility of consumption, the wealthy. Presently, the U.S. tax code taxes the third wealthiest man in the world, Warren Buffett, at 17.7%, while his receptionist is taxed at the average rate of 30%. And as Buffett said, ''I don't have a tax shelter'' (55). Recognizing that never-ending exponential material growth of the economy is impossible, we must shift our worldview to one that understands that our economy is sustained and contained by the finite global ecosystem (although qualitative development may continue indefinitely). In fact, existing levels of physical economic output and consumption are already unsustainable and should be reduced.

Another assumption which is almost a social necessity, but has perhaps not been examined, is that any such system should properly be nominally human-egalitarian.

"Human social fairness" and "sane ecological planning" are potentially wildly at odds, yet this is generally tossed off as a gimme. The tough job of reconciling "fairness" with the fact that the population may have to decline from 8 billion to 1 billion is stark. Why must such scholarly work include unexamined obeisance to a fetish we hold in common with capuchin monkeys? Life isn't fair. Attempts to make it more fair WHILE addressing the ecological crises make everything more difficult.

This is one way a "disconnect" in this paper manifests itself. Some of the recommendations would likely require dictatorial control to be achieved. Just who is going to take the "commons" from those who exploit now? Hell, a case could be made that the best way to implement these recommendations would be roman-empire style slavery, in which the slaves were "encouraged" to find happiness in poverty. Other than the knee-jerk horror such a suggestion would inspire in other monkeys, it offers one mechanism. So what other classes of logical solution are excluded without examination?

Recognizing that we are in a biophysical crisis because of our over-consumption and lack of protection of ecosystem services, we must invest in institutions and the technologies required to reduce the impact of the market economy and to preserve and protect public goods. It is now time to create another major category of institution, the commons sector, which would be responsible for managing existing common assets and for creating new ones.

This is wildly utopian. short of a dictatorship, how the hell do we do this? maintain it? (paging G Hardin...)

A side-note, "the future as commons" is perhaps a useful idea... and the interests of humans of the 50-year future might be dramatically at odds with humans of a 1000-year future, or 100,000.

Trusts can propertize the commons without privatizing them. The Alaska Permanent Fund is one frequently cited example, along with the many land trusts currently in existence. Common asset trusts could protect and restore critical natural capital-those resources provided by nature that are in some way essential to human well-being.

Don't they have to be set up beforehand as there's no easy way to evolve backwards? The reason Alaska presumably has such a thing, and other states mostly don't, is that it was "empty", evolutionarily speaking.

For the Internet to transform the idea of electronic democracy, universal access is critical. Currently technological, financial, and social barriers exist to such universal accessibility (57). Removal of these barriers thus becomes a major goal for replacement of the current plutocracy with real democracy.

Again, why is it assumed democracy is an answer? It's like capuchin delusions are inserted into rational ecological planning. The benefits of democracy are an unexamined assumption, or a social offering of the paper, much like Galileo having to include paragraphs on how great god was.

Assuming that our society can overcome path dependence and can avoid becoming locked-in to maladaptive institutions, the process of cultural evolution will push our society toward the adoption of institutions that best suit the new circumstance

How can any subset of a thermodynamic system overcome path dependence? This strikes me as just making up nonsense.

It will require integrated, systems-level redesign of our entire socio-ecological regime, focused explicitly and directly on the goal of sustainable quality of life rather than the proxy of unlimited material growth. - again, this strikes me as in one sense obvious and in another utopian.

Yes, we'll bloody well have to redesign everything, and will one way or another. Yet the implication - if I'm not misreading - that we can anticipate the new evolutionary context and pre-design an adapted set of WIT's ready for quick deployment, seems at odds with the way complex systems actually behave. I think the topics raised in this paper are important, but would have preferred to see more reality based angles. Perhaps that is as much a criticism of the limits of what passes peer review these days than of this paper proper.

I echo Eric’s sentiments when I express my gratitude for your thoughtful posts. Some have pointed to the paper’s strengths, which I appreciate, and others to weaknesses, some of which I either had a sense or an overt understanding while writing. For example, the question “who’s the actor in all these ‘shoulds’?” nagged me occasionally. The paper seemed to fold in on itself a bit, in that on the one hand it makes recommendations for institutional change, suggesting that there is a role for civic and government engagement, and on the other hand it postulates that evolution is the real actor. Perhaps there is no conflict there. At times I had trouble with it.

As lead author of a group paper, my role was less of that of the mastermind and more akin to editor. The brilliance of this piece, in my opinion, is that it encapsulates to the best of its ability the analyses of many minds, a difficult feat indeed in the social/behavioral sciences. I’m proud of how it holds together despite the varying nuances of the authors’ understanding.

Though I can’t speak for all the authors or the parts I didn’t write myself, I’d like to attend to some of your questions (so much to respond to!). I don’t have a huge amount of time tonight, so I’ll start with one. Again, this is from my perspective and not necessarily that of the other authors. I hope some of the other authors chime in... I notified them just today.

“Is the main point that GDP is a poor indicator of human well being and that a human development index or genuine progress indicator(GPI) should be used?
So are you comfortable in growth in GPI but not growth in GDP? or are you just not happy with GDP components that are not sustainable, such as growth in FF use. In other words growth in renewable energy, more novels, movies, art, more valuable manufactured goods if they use less materials than the ones they replace”?
I’m most interested in how to base an economy on ecological limits, whether those limits are defined as the borders of a town, state, or nation. Indeed, I think that ecology will dictate those borders rather than politics. Given the current resource constraints, I don’t see how growth in anything without a concurrent decline in something else will do anybody any good. So is growth in our alternative energy infrastructure a positive that should contribute to social wellbeing indicators? Yes, but something has got to give at the same time (fewer computers, cars, etc.) or else resource constraints will clamp down on the effort. This is a simplistic answer, since it isn’t a matter of using a car door to build a wind turbine. But it bears keeping in mind when speaking of the goods we want society to engender.

The methods for basing an economy on ecological limits have yet to be fully defined, and may well end up looking entirely different than a nation-wide indicator such as GPI. They could be based on seeds as currency. Who knows where we’ll land (thanks Ibon), but so far the system that holds the most promise for me is financial permaculture.

I’ll check back on this discussion as time allows.

Rachael

Rachael,
Thanks for taking the time to answer one of my questions, I would take your answer to mean that you think GPI is a better measure than GDP. I would agree but remind you that short term changes in GDP(per quarter) is specifically used to predict problems in the economy with two consecutive declines in GDP ( a recession) a leading indicator of rising unemployment.
I think it's beneficial to develop ideas about what is and what is not sustainable, but that doesn't mean less energy use is more sustainable than more energy, it's how the energy is generated, are wind and solar energy sustainable? clearly even one tenth of FF use is not sustainable beyond the next 100 years.

I would like to follow up on your statement;
"the early Industrial Revolution—when the world was still relatively empty of humans and their built infrastructure (33). Natural resources were abundant, social settlements were sparser, and inadequate access to infrastructure and consumer goods represented the main limit on improvements to human well-being. This set of circumstances has been called an ‘‘empty’’ world (34)".

I don't think it's correct to say even in a hunter gather society with some shifting agriculture( for example N America 1500) that available "resources were abundant". The population of N America filled up very quickly about 10,000 years ago limited by AVAILABLE RESOURCES. The invention of maize/bean agriculture allowed NEW resources to be exploited and in some regions such as central America an unsustainable population developed.

The introduction of water wheels, steel plows, steam power by European settlers allowed a lot more NEW resources to be accessed, including FF, deep prairie soils that couldn't be hand planted. This was a reason why China had >100 million population and N America <10million in 1500, the wind blown soils in China are easier to plow than the glacial clays of the prairies. Do we really think that Europeans would have found a vast "low population" forested continent if Amerindians had developed steel making and had steel axes and plows? Why were not the Amerindians ranching Buffalo as their ancestors did on the Eurasian Steppes? No horses until 1500 when some of the Spanish ones escaped. Because N America has 400Million people now but only 10million 500 years ago doesn't mean that today is less sustainable, certainly with our technology 10million can live more sustainably than 400 million, but that wasn't your thesis. It quite possible that in 100 years 500million will live in N America much more sustainably than 400 million live today, in fact I think it will be essential, and probably desirable to have even less than 400 million, it will depend upon what technologies are available. Will we use all of our solar resources, will we have nuclear fusion?

My conclusion is that N America was not an empty continent in 1500AD,or 1500BC it was a full continent for the technology available. I can make a similar argument for Africa, Australia and S America prior to 1400AD. The only exception is New Zealand, it truly was an empty continent until about 1100 AD when the Maoris arrived, but it was full by 1770.