2009: Predictions for Australia

As we exit 2008 it seems like a worthwhile exercise to consider from an Australian perspective what happened and what might come next. My “predictions” for 2009 and beyond should be viewed as nothing more than “Food For Thought”. When I review my past predictions (going back to early 2005) I find that the events of 2008 occurred earlier and were more pronounced than I predicted - So I don’t recommend betting money on this crop of forecasts!

I will use these predictions to define my actions over the next 12 months, so your views are welcome!

My Predictions 2009

Me at my crystal ball

The big picture:-
As I (and most of you) have said many times over recent years, the big picture problem is that the emerging economic downturn will complicate the response to Peak Oil and Climate Change. A crashing economy looks likely to force us down the easier (but ultimately disastrous) energy paths (CTL, GTL, tar sands, shale oil, etc), rather than the harder (but safe and renewable) energy paths. The projects associated with “easier” paths may be economically more defensible, but they will lead to worsening CO2 levels.

In summary: Short term we have an economic crisis to deal with, mid-term we have an energy crisis, and in the decades ahead we need to prepare ourselves (and our children) for a climate crisis.

The situation as we exit 2008:-

Financial situation.
In 2008 the Dow Jones industrial average dropped about 4,500 points, or around 34%, its biggest loss since 1931. Blue chips like Citigroup and Alcoa lost more than 65% of their value. The broader Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index dropped 39.5%, almost exactly matching the decline in 1937. As many predicted (though 1 year ahead of my personal expected schedule), the US economy is in crisis. The Australian economy is generally following the US lead, but our resources are keeping us from suffering to the same extent.

So the economic crisis is emerging a little ahead of my expected schedule.

Oil.
As we know, oil prices hit frightening heights with terrifying rapidity. Then they collapsed at an even more alarming rate. This drop in price has led to a decrease in new exploration and development projects (http://www.canadianbusiness.com/managing/strategy/article.jsp?content=20... ). The impacts of this will be felt in coming years.

The oil crisis emerged significantly ahead of my predicted schedule.

Climate.
There were numerous indications in 2008 that we were in trouble:
- An increased release of methane from both marine and permafrost sources was detected and confirmed in 2008, suggesting that we have crossed a boundary and may have triggered a positive feedback mechanism.
- The IEA released a study that suggests that it is now too late to avoid the first impacts of Climate Change. The IEA concluded that the lead time needed to develop and construct the required infrastructure is measured in decades. In that time the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere will exceed critical levels. Quite simply, the longer we delay, the more impacts we will feel.
- Acidification of the oceans was identified in several oceans in 2008. As a result the ability of oceans to act as a sink for CO2 has probably slowed and may be reversing. This would represent another positive feedback mechanism.
- Several authorities now suggest that 350 ppm is the correct target for CO2. This target has already been exceeded - we are at 385 ppm and climbing.

The Climate Change crisis has surprised many people by moving faster than even the worst-case predictions.

Global Warmed

A watched planet never boils

My predictions for 2009 and beyond:-

(Note: The formal qualifications that equip me for economic predictions are…errrr…. negligible. Any economic forecasts that I make should be viewed within this context. Once again, these are personal views that may form some food for thought.)

Financial:
- The US needs to roll over a massive amount of short and long-term debt in the next 3 years, as well as selling a lot more debt to cover the bailouts and stimulus packages. People are currently buying this debt because it represents a “flight to safety” investment strategy. I suspect that in 2009 people will finally ask the question "If most of our economic problems are coming out of the US, why are we investing in the US?" If this occurs, the US will be unable to sell debt in the required quantities, and so may be forced to print money. Hence there may be a decline in the value of the US dollar. This may lead to the beginning of inflation in the US in late 2009 or later, depending on the timing and degree of printing that occurs (but less, or no inflation in Australia, since we will not be required to take these actions?).

- A continued drop in retail prices across the board for the first half of this year. This looks like being severe in the US and UK, but noticeable even in Australia. Interest rates will stay low for at least 1 year. No inflation in 2009. Essentially, we may be looking at a period of deflation, with possible inflation later.

- Any given debt burden is much harder to manage in a deflationary environment than in an inflationary environment. Deflation is thus a trigger for more business (and personal) failures. This danger is a stimulus that should encourage the government to foster inflation rather than deflation.

- The degree of inflation/deflation depends (among other factors) on two factors that the government has at least partial control over - the amount of money in circulation and the velocity of that money. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply ) Both of these factors currently point to deflation. Looking at money in circulation we find that the wealth destruction that we have just seen has vastly reduced the quantity of money in circulation. As for the velocity of money – people who have money are shell-shocked after seeing so much wealth destroyed, so they are reluctant to spend money in this environment. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money ) As a result, the velocity of money is near zero. Governments will have to reverse both of these factors if they want to reverse deflation. I don’t think this can be done quickly. When the cycle is finally reversed there may well be a rebound into severe inflation.

- Energy and resource prices will rebound a little in 2009 or early 2010. This will occur as a result of a combination of factors:
1. A perceived recovery in the US due to Obama's spending on infrastructure
2. Increased demand due to increased military and infrastructure spending in other nations.
3. Actions by OPEC to reduce supply
4. Reduction in spending on exploration and production of oil due to lower oil prices leading to a perception of an upcoming supply shortage
5. Speculation based on the factors above.
However this rebound is likely to trigger more problems in vulnerable economies, leading to further demand destruction and thus moderating the increase in price. The price cycles are likely to be shorter in duration and lower in amplitude because the exposed economies are now very sensitive to negative inputs.

- The hope that Obama will embark on an infrastructure spending spree may help stabilize the US early in the year. Unfortunately, anything Obama does will be based on borrowed money - so he will be making the future worse to save the present. From Australia's point of view, this is not all bad - any infrastructure building that Obama does will require resources, which is good for Australia.

- The fact that the US is already heavily in debt, and intends to go further into debt, will reduce its economic resilience. At a time of declining incomes and emerging deflation, debt is very difficult to manage; as a result the US economy will be sensitive to any further negative changes. So when the price of oil and other resources bounces the US economy may find itself vulnerable. As noted above, I think that infrastructure spending may cause a modest bounce in resource prices. If infrastructure projects are started based on low resource costs and the resource costs subsequently rise, then the projects are in jeopardy - so the created jobs are in jeopardy and the confidence in the US economic recovery is undermined. In summary: The US does not have enough resilience to survive another round of resource price rises - yet the strategy for economic recovery requires actions that will cause resource prices to rise.

- The "leveraged buy-outs" that have occurred in Australia over the last few years, in conjunction with various other insane debt-based business practises, will lead to a lot of businesses and high-profile individuals defaulting on loans. This will lead to some high-profile business failures.

- Small businesses (particularly retailers) will be impacted by the decrease in discretionary spending as Australians cut back on credit card spending. There are already talks of deserted shopping malls in the US and UK (http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Final-city-Woolies-store-closes.484614... ), but the effect has been much milder in Australia.

- Increased unemployment in Australia will follow as a result of the 2 points above. At the risk of stating the obvious: If you wish to improve your chances of staying employed you may need to be looking at the non-discretionary areas (health, defence, government, food). I looked at these areas and concluded that I would need to take a very large pay cut to work in any of them, so I have not followed my own advice here. The counter-argument is that high-paid jobs allow you to prepare better.

- I suspect that, even here in Australia, house prices will continue to drop. In my view, this is not a good time to be buying a second ("lifeboat") property. Perhaps late in 2009 or early next year?

Energy and Resources.
The cutback in new oil exploration and production projects will have consequences in the years to come. Energy constraints are virtually inevitable over the next few years - The IEA predicts an "Energy Crunch" starting in 2010, and becoming more pronounced in 2011. These constraints will limit economic recovery and will probably be felt as economic constraints rather than energy constraints.

In summary we have a declining spiral: Diminishing returns lead to energy constraints. Energy constraints limit economic recovery, which limits the ability to address the energy constraints. This is something that the people at TOD (and elsewhere) have warned of for many years now.

If you take a short-term (and somewhat cynical) view, this is not necessarily all bad from an Australian viewpoint. If the rise in energy costs prompts a further collapse of the most vulnerable economies (and assuming that Australia is not one of the most vulnerable) then we will see a re-run of the current situation - energy costs down because demand destruction is running faster than resource declines. This might be good - if you aren't exposed to the most vulnerable economies. Unfortunately, this scenario would probably imply the continued collapse of the US economy (as one of the "most vulnerable") - with associated knock-on effects in Australia.

If this scenario plays out, we may not see high-priced fuel again for years. Looking at the list of "most vulnerable economies"...well, it is a list that almost exactly coincides with the list of "largest oil users", so moderated oil usage may be a self-controlling system. We could be in for an economic roller-coaster ride as resource price rises trigger further economic decline in vulnerable economies, thus creating demand destruction and reducing the price.

As long as Australia is not numbered in the "vulnerable economies", this scenario is slightly less ugly than some of the other possibilities. For the "vulnerable economies" the change will be sudden and dramatic as, one by one, they suffer further economic setbacks. We do not live in an economic vacuum, so this won’t be fun for us either.

The other big factor that will be felt in the energy and resources sector is the "Best First" factor. The highest quality resources were extracted first. We are left with lower-quality resources. We can still extract resources from the ground, but they are in lower concentrations and so take more energy. But the energy resources (oil, gas, coal) are also of a lower quality, and so require more resources (steel, concrete, etc) to produce....

Mineral resources require increasing quantities of energy, but energy extraction requires increasing quantities of minerals. Another downwards spiral.

We are entering a time of diminishing returns. In the future, the highest-quality resources will probably be found by salvaging deserted shopping malls.

Climate.
Plans for the future need to consider the rapidity with which this problem is emerging. It has emerged faster than even worst-case predictions.

Climate Change defines my long-term goals. Given the effects of Climate Change in conjunction with resource constraints, it may not be easy to move my family and get re-established in future decades, so the choices I make now need to be consistent with where I want to be, and where I think my children might have the best future. I would like my children to be physically located in a good area, and provided with the skills, resources and mind-set to cope with the challenges of climate change.

The key word there is "change". We are facing a time of change, so they may need to be equipped to change the plan that I am developing now....this will require resources and skills that I need to define and provide.

Resources and skills
The proposed "Kids Kit" - should cover all their needs?

Questions/Conclusions:-
- I was born in Queensland, but currently work in Victoria. Do I “go home”, or stay in Victoria? Due to climate change issues, long term prospects for Victoria (or Tasmania) could be better than areas further north (which could get uncomfortably hot). However rain further north is likely to be better than in Victoria. Hence, if I settle in Victoria it needs to be close the coast and/or a large river. Lovelock predicts a run-away positive-feedback scenario, with a temperature rise so high that we need to look to the poles to find benign temperatures. This is an extreme view, but needs to be considered as a risk. If Lovelock is right, then within my children's time even Victoria may not be far enough south. Lovelock and others suggest that (in a worst-case scenario) Antarctica may be a long-term survival option (http://www.rushprnews.com/2008/10/13/climate-study-forecasts-polar-citie... ). I am probably going to stick with Victoria, but provide resources and skills that ensure that my children can relocate if required.

- Employment in a non-discretionary area (health, defence, government or food production) might be wise. Unfortunately, this may lead to a pay cut, which may limit my ability to provide resources and skills and thus not be compatible with the goal above. If I get offered the "Perfect Job", but it is in Queensland, I will probably accept. Money trumps location because money creates options. Accepting a bucket of money for a job that may die in a year or two may be a better option than accepting a lower-paid job that does not provide spare cash for preparations..... Hmmmm….I seem to be arguing this one round in circles.

- If the situation gets worse, the definition of "non-discretionary employment" may change. (The absolute worst case is that non-discretionary employment is defined as either "hunter" or "gatherer".) Regardless of what type of employment I decide on, I need to ensure that both I and my children have access to alternate non-discretionary employment (ie the ability to produce essential goods or provide an essential service). I have discussed previously the value of sailing - as it provides multiple different options (the ability to relocate if things get bad, the ability to offer transport as a service, and the ability to fish). Many of these options could be considered alternate non-discretionary employment.

A future non-discretionary occupation may involve occupational hazards

Me at the helm of my next boat

- Given the "diminishing returns" situation discussed above, the ability to fabricate items from the materials at hand is a skill that is likely to be increasingly valued.

- There are two scenarios to examine: fast decline and slow decline. If the "vulnerable economies" go down slowly, one at a time, we have a fairly benign slow decline as long as we are outside of the vulnerable economies. However if Australia is a vulnerable economy, or there is a war that impacts Australia, or a serious outbreak of disease, or anything else that breaks the currently brittle situation, then a rapid decline is possible.

The Proposed Plan:-

Hopefully

The proposed implementation

There are two possibilities, based on the slow or fast possibilities.

Scenario 1. A slow decline overseas - no collapse for Australia.
Plan:
- Find a job in a non-discretionary area of employment. Accept the pay cut. The physical location should be near an ocean or large river, ideally in Melbourne, Victoria (I have a lot invested in our current house) - but for the right money I will go anywhere.
- Buy a small boat (probably a trailer-sailor, as my income might not stretch to anything more). Improve my sailing skills and teach my children.
- Invest time in other skills (ranging from welding to shooting)
- Get the necessary equipment to learn those skills (ranging from lathes to shotguns). This equipment needs to be tough enough to last for generations - but the pay cut will limit what I can buy. Take advantage of retail price decreases over the next 12 months - save money and start buying in 3+ months.

Scenario 2. A fast decline leading to economic collapse in Australia, with a timeframe of as little as 2-3 years.
- Find the highest paying job - don't worry if it is non-discretionary.
- Buy (as above, but with more money and less time).

So which way do I go?

Any thoughts?

Mate, all this doomer stuff is a bit Seppo, yeah? What next, category E firearms license and the bangstick hidden down your trousers?

At worst we have a recession this year. Not a collapse, a recession. Unlike the Americans, we have banking regulations and oversight. Really the main risk to us is indirect stuff - the Americans buy less junk from China so the Chinese buy less iron and coal from us, etc.

But that is mitigated by (for example) China's having about $1.5 trillion of foreign currency reserves, and about twice (IIRC) as much savings in their own currency, so China will just focus a bit more on domestic consumption for a while, knock down their savings for a bit and find new markets.

Don't listen to Lovelock, he's an old hippie from way back, smoke that stuff for long enough you turn a bit mental. He's been sitting in his office in his little house for years, he's not exactly up with all the details of the science like some IPCC reviewer. He's got about as much scientific authority these days as your average anonymous blogger.

Defence is certainly not non-discretionary. During the "recession we had to have" the military was more than halved in full-time members. We just turn all pacifist and start talking about a "lean and agile force", that is a small military flying borrowed choppers.

We're not about to become hunter-gatherers. Bloody hell, mate.

Don't do anything in preparation for a collapse which isn't a good idea to do anyway. It's always good to pay off or at least minimise your debts. It's always good to choose security of employment over a fat paypacket. It's always good to be able to grow a bit of your own food, and fix up bits and pieces around the home, and so on. Just do that sort of stuff, leave the assault rifles and spam in the bunker in the woods to the loopy people who really love it.

Hi Kiashu.
I was hoping to start the year with something that outlined legitimate concerns, but added a bit of levity. Based on your comment, I suspect that I failed and simply produced some muddled writing.

The legitimate concerns:
- Financial. The outside economic world is in trouble. Here in Oz we are somewhat insulated, but in the 2-3 year time frame it is conceivable that we could experience a financial collapse (unlikely, because some Bad Things would need to happen first). This would be comparable to the Argentina economic collapse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_economic_crisis_(1999-2002) ) - I am not seriously suggesting that Australia would experience a collapse to "Hunter or Gatherer" status (I considered using "carnivore or snack" in that bit of the text...maybe I should have).

- Resources. We are experiencing diminishing returns, caused by the fact that the oil/mineral deposits that we extract are of a lower quality.

- Climate. Lovelock is at the extreme end. But he is not alone there. I think you should look at the full spectrum of opinions when doing multi-generational planning. However I am not really planning to be Kevin Costner from Waterworld.

Non-technical writing is not my strength. In future I will try to write less muddled narratives with more use of smilies to clearly delineate my moments of more light-hearted whimsy.

The problem is that what you say as a joke, other writers and commenters on TheOilDrum say entirely seriously. So it's a bit hard to tell. You have to be very clear.

Lovelock shares company only with other uninformed people. Informed people are much more moderate in what they say. Of informed people, Hansen's about the most extreme. But even he I think we can look at through the filter of, we'd all be doomers if we'd been talking about these things since the mid-80s and had begun by talking to that bunch of corrupt clowns in the US Congress.

Equally we must discount those obviously in the pockets of Enron etc.

So when we exclude the hysterical doomers and the corrupt cornucopians, we're left with a more sane middle ground. In there we start to look at things in insurance terms. There are high and low probability things, and high and low cost of mitigation things.

High cost Low cost
High probability Yes Yes
Low probability No Maybe

Obviously the things which are high probability, we must pay the cost to mitigate them no matter what - eg oil running short in the next decades. The things which are low probability but would cost a lot to mitigate we shouldn't worry about - eg nuclear war.

The things which aren't likely to happen but which don't cost much to mitigate are the "maybe" category. An Argentine-style economic collapse in Australia is very unlikely. We've an entirely different kind of economy. And you obviously think an Argentine-style economic collapse is unlikely, too, since you decided to keep a high-paying job - the Argentines lost all their savings in their economic collapse. If you really thought you were going to lose all your money then you wouldn't work so hard to get lots of it, would you?

So here you'd only do the things to make it not so bad if they're good things to do anyway. That's why I said I'd choose a stable secure moderate-paying job over an insecure high-paying one - that's always good. It's only if the only alternative to the high-paying insecure job is a low-paying secure one that there's any doubt, you start looking at how much money you could save, etc.

The best solutions to problems are where one solution solves several problems. This is the theory behind the old "teach a man to fish instead of giving him a fish." It's also what some greenish types call "the Theory of Anyway." It's the answer to the climate change or peak oil denialists - the things we do to mitigate the dangers of those things, they're good things to do anyway. Things like consuming less, avoiding debt, walking or biking instead of driving, eating less meat, planting trees - even if the Earth has a creamy nougat center of oil and burning coal gives us vitamin C, these are all good things to do anyway, things which improve our quality of life.

Something worth watching is SBS on Sunday night at 2030, Changing Climate, Changing Times.

To be honest, I think that the most likely scenario for the world, if we just let things drift, is a sort of ecotopia for a wealthy few in the world - probably in western Europe and eastern Asia, and the northeast and west of North America, with a few other outposts elsewhere - but with the nasty undercurrent of exploiting labour from the poorer parts of the world.

Something like what we see in India and many other developing nations - an effectively gated community of well-off people surrounded by slums and desperation. Only with an "ecological" turn to it.

I think this is most likely because the two key parts of an economy are resources and labour. In most countries, one of labour and resources are cheap, and the other expensive. When resources are cheap and labour expensive, we get machines doing nasty work, and humans can live cleaner lives.


No flying cars, but still pretty nice

But when resources are expensive and labour cheap, we get... well...


Shipbreaking supplies 80% of Bangladesh's steel

My fear is that we'll choose to have the second enable the first. Our steel will come from the sweat of their hands. It doesn't have to be that way, but with cheap labour and expensive resources, combined with our own selfish laziness, it's a likely way.

I think it's a nightmarish scenario, to be honest. I don't see how a society can be resource renewable without being socially renewable. Already we in the West live on the backs of the Third World to a large degree. Resource scarcity could make this worse. I don't want to live my life on the backs of other people, nor have others live on my back.

But it seems most likely to me. That's why I do what I can to suggest another way of living, one we can all have. I don't fear Mad Max. I fear Ecotopia.

HI Aeldric

Great article. I have been reading TOD, EB and LATOC since 2005; and was sufficiently motivated to complete a Master of Sustainability Sciences degree last year, so that I could round out my knowledge with some specifics such as resource economics, climate science, ecology etc. I am also a chartered accountant and so straddle the sustainability and financial worlds. I concur with everything you say. I though find myself very uncertain. The variables are too big and changes are big and seemingly random in both their form and effect.

I am also a sailor. I sailed to Oz from the UK a few years ago with my family so I know what it is like to live on a boat (and manage energy, water and maintenance). One thing I can say is that a trailer sailer is too little. Our boat was 44' and as a family of 5 we felt quite cramped. We did meet another family of 5 who were on a 38' boat (2/3 the volume?) so maybe we were a little spoilt. Nevertheless the bigger the boat the better they can do things at sea. They are usually more sea kindly (generally), they can manage heavy weather better, they are faster etc etc. One thing you definitely will not do on a trailer sailer is carry cargo. Fishing in a sailboat is also problematic (as a profession). We caught a lot of fish, but to do it professionally the boat would need to be set up accordingly.

If you want some advice on sailing and boats etc reply and we can go off line on the topic

Thanks Saildog. Although my ignorance is profound, I am at least somewhat aware of the limitations of trailer sailors - my thoughts are that they are less expensive and easier to learn on than a larger boat. Long term, if I went down that path I would be looking for something 10 meters or more.... but I haven't sailed in almost 30 years - and then it was Hobie Cats - I may need to learn to walk before I run.

I may take you up on your offer of advice, thanks :-)

Hi Aeldric

Interesting article which in some instances may be a bit too positive and in other cases exemplifies the "what should I do". According to Kiashu I would classify as a doomer. Personally, I am a pragmatist and realized a fair while back now that the recession will lead into a depression and in the US this could be far worse than in the 1930’s. Back then hungry, unemployed people went back home to live and work on the family farms which are long gone since we followed the path of industrial agriculture. So as the US heads into 2009 there is likely in the first instance to be a short recovery as the touted 800 billion stimulus package is thrown at the economy on top of the 700 billion financial services bailout. Add to the belief by many Americans that their messiah Obama will save them from the idea of having to do with less and there will be a short term rally in confidence and possibly spending. We will call this the “Obama Effect” then when reality sets in and unemployment carries on up and malls close by the hundred, the chant of the hoards will be “See that’s what happens if you put a Blackman in charge”. The same would have been true if it had been Hillary Clinton eg “see what happens if you put a woman in charge etc…

So, now the car makers have been given a short term lifeline with about 13 billion taken by Chrysler and GM, but they only have until the 31st March to prove they can be viable. So most likely scenario is one or both will go down and possibly Ford leading to about 240,000 direct and 2.5 million indirect job losses. The overall trend is supposedly 1 million jobs a month going in the US by mid 2009.

With all those unemployed in the US, the demand from China is not just slowing it is going belly up in some instances. US companies are extending payments for goods out to 90 or even 120 days from the usual 30-45 days and Chinese companies are being forced to seek credit to pay for raw materials from their suppliers. Many of them are consequently going bankrupt or are refusing to send goods until they receive payment, which is effectively freezing trade due to lack of available credit. Effectively nobody trusts anybody to pay their bills!

I think a good read if you haven’t already done so is Dmitry Orlov’s book “Reinventing Collapse” and his articles on the subject. Basically, the five stage go financial collapse, followed by economic collapse .. read the articles http://www.energybulletin.net/node/46667 and http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2008/02/five-stages-of-collapse.html

Anyway, to the big question of what all this gloom and doom means for Australia. We won’t ride out this global depression with a slight slow down in 2009. Most likely there will be significant layoff’s in the mining industry which has already started. In turn all the miners who previously had so many investment properties will be trying to offload them onto a market already over supplied with over priced property which will continue the downward spiral in prices.

Melbourne has seen a significant price drop in the last year and in Perth where I lived until a year ago the out suburbs have seen price drops of upto 25 per cent and the median house price has dropped by about $40,000.

So, I sit and write this from our small farm in southern Tasmania where we now each work part time since we were able to get debt free by moving here. When we don’t work we pick up useful country skills from milking cows and making cheese to carpentry, hunting and fishing and fence making to name a few. We have retrofitted an old farm house with solar and hydronic heating and will be off the grid when the PV goes live.

The whole question of big money or not really depends on your level of debt. Do you require a big salary to pay off car loans and mortgages or can you make do with a smaller place and have more time to prepare more. Time is your greatest asset otherwise you may find too soon you have spent much time debating and thinking and you are suddenly in the middle of a shit storm you knew in your heart was going to happen. Remember “Needs are few, wants are many and learned”

According to Kiashu I would classify as a doomer. Personally, I am a pragmatist and realized a fair while back now that the recession will lead into a depression and in the US this could be far worse than in the 1930’s.

This is why I asked if aeldric had become American.

The US may be in the poo, but it does not follow from that that the whole world is in the poo.

It is the depth of the poo this time round that is of concern. UK is already up to their armpits, Eurozone is looking very shaky and China is not quite as rosy as you seem to think. Even with growth at 8%, which is not certain, China does not create enough jobs to keep the peasants happy. If they slip to 5% then they are truly in it. They may have plenty of money but ít is essentailly worthless paper if the foreigners who issued it devalue their currencies enough. UK has already done this and it is causing alarm in Europe. America will be next if the bond issues start to fail and they crank up the printing presses.

I just don't see how you think Australia is well insulated from all that. The mining boom has now turned into a fading echo and this will ripple back through the economy faster than a cheap vindaloo. The drought is still messing with us so agriculture is unlikley to pick up the slack. What else does Australia really have? Domestic consumption.... of stuff, the purchase of which has been funded on a credit binge, which was in turn funded by overseas lenders.

The government has already had to intervene in the mortgage market, the car loan market, guaranteeing bank borrowings, spending the surplus, which are hardly confidence inspiring moves.

Australian are going on a diet in 2009 whether they like it or not.

A diet may not be a bad idea anyway!
;-)

Most likely there will be significant layoff’s in the mining industry which has already started. In turn all the miners who previously had so many investment properties will be trying to offload them onto a market already over supplied with over priced property which will continue the downward spiral in prices.

Melbourne has seen a significant price drop in the last year and in Perth where I lived until a year ago the out suburbs have seen price drops of upto 25 per cent and the median house price has dropped by about $40,000.

Care to give examples of mining companies that have started laying off people ?

RIO have announced global cuts but I haven't seen numbers for Australia. BHP aren't cutting. Neither are Woodside.

Santos are looking for 600 new people to work on CSG projects in Queensland.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/09/2462067.htm?section=business

Apache's Reindeer / Devils Creek gas project in WA just got the go ahead this week as well.

Perth house prices may be down - but even if its 25% in some areas, overall they tripled over the past 6 years, so the medium term trend is still pretty healthy.

Thus far its only people with big margin loans or who have lost their jobs (far more likely in finance than mining) that are hurting.

Here's One

These are direct mining jobs that have gone but the real effect will be felt in heavy engineering workshops and contractors an suppliers all around the country. These enterrpises have geared themselves for growth and will ahve to hastily unwind those positions as the order book from the mining companies slow down. There are plenty of mining projects that looked great two years ago, that will struggle to get financing now so won't happen.

Thanks - I like it when people provide references :-)

When I was in Perth over Xmas everyone was extremely gloomy about the coming year but I like to see some actual numbers (no matter how gloomy they were, I don't know anyone in mining or energy who has been fired yet - but I know lots in finance).

References as requested

$25m spending rush amid mining layoffs in Queensland
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24821467-5013871,00.html
The Australian, December 19, 2008

Lean times ahead for Australian miners
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,,24885133-20142,00...
The Australian, January 08, 2009

Slump in building approvals hits Australian economy
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,24889653-5011140,00.html
The Courier Mail, January 8th 2009

Rio Tinto resumes operations at Western Australian Pilbara mine
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,,24879241-14334,00.html
AAP, January 6th 2009

Alcoa slashes 15,000 jobs, cuts output yet again
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,,24885302-36418,00...
The Australian, January 8th 2008
**Note reference to 4400 mining job losses since June 2008

More hardship for resources sector ahead
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,24892933-643...
The Australian, Janaury 10th 2009

Property boomtowns turn to bust
http://www.news.com.au/business/money/story/0,,24817416-14327,00.html
The Australian, December 18th 2008

And as I also said about the building Industry
Building industry faces layoffs after sharp drop in new housing approvals
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,,24890654-462,00.html
The Australian, January 9th 2009

I studied and lived with Alaska Eskimos and Koyukon Indians for more than 20 years. The primary focus of my work centered on subsistence practices and traditions. Based on personal experience and research, shifting from a modern industrialized lifestyle to that of a subsistence farmer, rancher, fisherman, hunter/gatherer is far more difficult than many realize. So-called "primitive" lifestyles require amazingly detailed understandings of environmental dynamics, options and alternatives for resource harvesting, group cooperation and support, etc. Indigenous peoples were trained and conditioned from early childhood to effectively interact with their natural habitat and to always have a "plan B" when things went wrong. They also were hardened to the harsh realities of subsistence life and took occasional hardship and even premature loss of life as part of the natural cycle. It takes generations to successfully develop such a culture. Anyone who thinks they can do it on their own will be sadly disillusioned.

The projected relocation of large numbers of people to Antarctica in the face of runaway global warming faces some major challenges. Even as the climate warms and the ice falls away and melts in Antarctica will experience radical shifts in temperatures and climate. It will take centuries for the weather to gradually settle into predictable patterns. There will also be the problem of attempting to subsist on largely barren rock and extremely thin soils. Wresting a living from the ocean will be extremely difficult.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but future survival and rebuilding a viable, rewarding lifestyle requires facing the likely realities of the coming decades - and centuries.

Hi Kiashu
Unfortunately, because the US is in the POO so are the rest of us including Australia - one of the downsides of globalisation, we all shares the highs and the lows and all financial systems and economies are intrinsically dependent. The US is the cog that drives the world economy and right now that is grinding to a halt and set to rust with little oil left to lubricate it of its own.

They consume 25 percent of what is produced worldwide including the oil and we may all talk about their consumerist attitudes and that the rest of us are more frugal, but truth be told we need them. The next bleak truth is the US economy has run into the brick wall of reality and all the plans for more borrowing to fund economic stimulus packages are just short term bandaid fixes while the - patient is haemorrhaging internally. The same is true of Rudd’s plans here in Australia.

They talk in the US about an infrastructure stimulus package, but in the end where does the money come from – certainly not US banks since they are being nationalised as we speak. So it is foreign money and what if the US starts to default on its loans?? Will the foreign bankers/ countries call in their money.
So to Australia, a third world/ first world nation since we are effectively reliant on exporting our natural resources, which then get shipped to other countries to be turned into goods which we then import. We don’t really have that much of a manufacturing base and although not in the poo up to our necks like the yanks we are probably already up to our knees and the poo is rising fast.

So the Australian scenario is a doubling in unemployment, to around 900,000. This will include large scale layoffs in the mining and resource sector which have already started and then the building sector. This is just starting to happen as the number of new home starts continues to decline. The estimates are half of the current mining sector and a third of real estate agents will not survive this current down turn.

The tourism industry will take a large hit as people worldwide cut back on discretionary spending and in the end we are a long way from most places. Likewise higher education, heavily reliant on international full fee paying students is starting to feel the pinch. Long term the economic recovery when is does come will be a hiccup on the down ward trend of the markets, since by that point the lack of investment in oil and energy due to a lack of investment will push oil prices up again leading to another price hike, probably higher, before another collapse again and so on.

So to reiterate again, if the US is in the POO, the world is in the POO.

You mention again cuts in the mining sector, but despite Big Gav asking you, you've not named where.

Recently I was down in Tassie, we passed through two mining towns, Rosebury and Queenstown. In Rosebury they said that contractors had been laid off but the permanent staff were alright, in Queenstown they're not hiring new contractors but otherwise are proceeding as before.

A halt in growth isn't a recession, still less is it a great disaster.

To be fair his comment above was made before my comment.

Chill Dude

I don't spend my whole life on the internet ;) References are above in reply to Big Gav.

If you want the next step in the down turn it comes in regard to the support that underlies the finacial sector to some extent eg that industry close to my heart IT. So Microsoft are in the process of laying off 30,000 worldwide and IBM are letting go about 16,000. I have several friends who work for both companies and all that is keeping the Australian jobs at the moment is the fact we are cheap because of the devaluation of the dollar.

So the local IT market is going to be slow and there is already a large drop off in IT vacancies [I can find the reference again if you really want it or if I can be bothered looking]. There are also a lot of Australian IT workers returning home from the UK since that goldmine has dried up with the collapse of the financial sector in the UK. So indirectly that impacts Australia.

I do a lot of reading of newspapers in my volunteer work for ODAC and can't always remember where I found the articles ;)

The mesaage I am trying to get across to you is that if you think we are somehow insulated from this downturn, recession/ depression you are sadly misguided. The effects of globalisation are many and sharing the pain was the one in the very small print at the bottom of the page.

Kiashu

Developing story as I said, cuts in the mining sector are ongoing.

Miners cut 570 jobs as prices dive Rio Tinto, Oz Metals, Xstrata
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,24910931-462,00.html
14th January 2009

Xstrata to cut 150 jobs
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,24909981-31037,00.html
13th January 2009

Rio Tinto to scale back expansion plans for Pilbara iron projects as demand falls
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,24905258-462,00.html
13th January 2008

Oz Minerals suspends Scuddles mine to save money
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,24906373-364...
13th January 2009

Resources plunge drags bourse lower
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,,24909676-36418,00...
14th January 2009

I think a pattern is emerging. US slows down then China slows down then Australia slows down.Five percent growth in Chinese terms is very bad news as the long held internal leadership theory goes anything below 7/ 8 percent growth will lead to internal social instability.

Good on you Aeldric for going out on a limb and starting discussion. You are probably right about Oz's fortunes in 09, but I think you, Kiashu and Big Gav are all too optimistic for your own good and are overestimating the costs of planning like a doomer.

Believing in the resilience of our suicidal economy will slow its change, which at this point i'd argue is in nobodies long term interests. Should I keep comfy city job paying lots of taxes so that the banks can dump more of their bad assets on government? so we can build that coal fired desalination plant in Wonthaggi? I don't think so, we've much bigger fish to fry, like re/creating a sustainable human culture, and holding ones place in an elite can not IMHO advance that. Take the red pill guys ;)

I'm not an optimist. I try to look at things as they are.

I don't say that Australia will prosper in these times. Just that we won't go completely arse-up the way the Americans are going.

Just because I say we're not drowning does not mean I say we're swimming along like an Iron Man. We're just dog-paddling. Doing alright is considerably better than doing crap, even if it is not doing well.

I am very tired of this rubbish I see online, this rush to extremes, or fancily put, the fallacy of the excluded middle - where if you're against the death penalty, you must want to let everyone go, or if you're in favour of the death penalty, you must want to execute people for jaywalking. Etc.

It's bollocks. There's a whole middle ground of things to believe in, or of things which might happen.

Kiashu,

I've been following this thread with some interest, as I rarely see Australians actually acknowledge the trouble we're facing as a society (I got here via energybulletin).

Some people believe we're really going belly-up (I'm one of those), some people believe she'll be alright mate (you're presumably one of those) and some innocent souls believe we're ok and everything is going to be just fine.

In the end no one knows what is going to happen, as we've never been in this kind of predicament before (peak oil, climate change, overpopulation etc etc), and it really is a case of time will tell, and even then 'I told you so' is not really going to help anyone. In addition, what is good for me as a way of preparation is not necessarily good for the person next to me, there is simply no straight answer.

What I object to with your way of argumentation is that you're negative and disrespectful to other people. Sure you can disagree, but there is no need to ridicule and f and blime the way you do. Show a bit of moderation and calm down a bit for pete's sake. It'll make the whole debate a lot more pleasant and constructive. If you just want to be right all the time and don't want to even consider other people's views and opinions, then maybe stick to your blog where you can rant and rave to all your heart's content.

Aeldric has the right to put forward his views and thoughts, whether or not you agree with them, without being ridiculed for them.

Anna

oz has large base load resources (wave, geothermal)

but does Rudd have the brains/skills to turn oz off the Howard track?

Tasmania or NZ better bets than Vic