geonic
Interesting that noone in the media has yet pointed out that either a 15% or 20% commitment to 'renewable energy' by 2020 probably still means an absolute increase ( from present levels) in carbon
dioxide emissions at that time. Furthermore a commitment to 80% reduction of emissions (from present levels)by 2050 surely suggests that all further additions to the energy use marix should be emission free to give any credence to achieving this goal. The two goals seem irreconciable under the BAU regime beloved by our present political masters.
Even more interesting is the emphasis placed on 'clean coal' Two proposed largescale power generation/gasification/sequesteration experiments proposed for Scotland and Fremantle (WA) seem to have sunk without trace.
The data I have seen suggest an energy penalty of 20-40%( which probably does not include the extra mining and transport)so this means a substansial expansion of the coal industry. What is fascinating is the fixation on reporting the 'successes' of the injection of the carbon dioxide into depleted hydrocarbon traps.I would have thought that this was by far the best understood part of
the process, requiring little further research. The difficulties of extracting carbon dioxide from hot dilute waste gas streams for retrofitting power stations seems to be much less commented on or studied- although techniques obviously exist.
It seems pretty clear that either a very expensive messy retrofitting programme, or a generation of completely new power units will be required. Will gas fired stations need to do the same thing? It aint going to be cheap.
Yes - I've noticed this myself - the real key is reduction in carbon emissions (and from a peak oil point of view, reduction in hydrocarbon consumption).
George Monbiot is just about the only commentator I see regularly saying "we need to reduce emissions by 60% by 2030" (or whatever his numbers are) instead of "20% renewables by 2020" or "50% renewables by 2050".
Do you have a link for the Fremantle gasification project you mentioned ? Is that the Rio / BP one (I have a vague recollection of them announcing one earlier in the year).
I'm not a believer in clean coal at all but the Bass Strait experiment seems to be the most likely to go ahead. I'm told piping the carbon dioxide is also problematical over long distances as it is highly corrosive (I think the Norwegians have had a lot of problems at Sleipner but I haven't tracked that project for the last couple of years).
geonic Hi biggav. I probably saw the same news items as you did re the WA project-last heard of as abandoned due to lack of nearby sequestration sites. The reality is ( I think) that some engineers got hold hold of it and showed it to be a load of rubbish, put up as some feelgood PR.
I am certainly no fan of 'clean coal'.
The other good one - also gone without trace- was the SANTOS plan to collect CO2 from around eastern and southern Australia and pipe it up to the Cooper Basin. That would have been a real winner.
These sort of schemes give one the feeling that reality distortions are taking place to accomodate the BAU scenario.
geonic
Interesting that noone in the media has yet pointed out that either a 15% or 20% commitment to 'renewable energy' by 2020 probably still means an absolute increase ( from present levels) in carbon
dioxide emissions at that time. Furthermore a commitment to 80% reduction of emissions (from present levels)by 2050 surely suggests that all further additions to the energy use marix should be emission free to give any credence to achieving this goal. The two goals seem irreconciable under the BAU regime beloved by our present political masters.
Even more interesting is the emphasis placed on 'clean coal' Two proposed largescale power generation/gasification/sequesteration experiments proposed for Scotland and Fremantle (WA) seem to have sunk without trace.
The data I have seen suggest an energy penalty of 20-40%( which probably does not include the extra mining and transport)so this means a substansial expansion of the coal industry. What is fascinating is the fixation on reporting the 'successes' of the injection of the carbon dioxide into depleted hydrocarbon traps.I would have thought that this was by far the best understood part of
the process, requiring little further research. The difficulties of extracting carbon dioxide from hot dilute waste gas streams for retrofitting power stations seems to be much less commented on or studied- although techniques obviously exist.
It seems pretty clear that either a very expensive messy retrofitting programme, or a generation of completely new power units will be required. Will gas fired stations need to do the same thing? It aint going to be cheap.
Yes - I've noticed this myself - the real key is reduction in carbon emissions (and from a peak oil point of view, reduction in hydrocarbon consumption).
George Monbiot is just about the only commentator I see regularly saying "we need to reduce emissions by 60% by 2030" (or whatever his numbers are) instead of "20% renewables by 2020" or "50% renewables by 2050".
Do you have a link for the Fremantle gasification project you mentioned ? Is that the Rio / BP one (I have a vague recollection of them announcing one earlier in the year).
I'm not a believer in clean coal at all but the Bass Strait experiment seems to be the most likely to go ahead. I'm told piping the carbon dioxide is also problematical over long distances as it is highly corrosive (I think the Norwegians have had a lot of problems at Sleipner but I haven't tracked that project for the last couple of years).
geonic Hi biggav. I probably saw the same news items as you did re the WA project-last heard of as abandoned due to lack of nearby sequestration sites. The reality is ( I think) that some engineers got hold hold of it and showed it to be a load of rubbish, put up as some feelgood PR.
I am certainly no fan of 'clean coal'.
The other good one - also gone without trace- was the SANTOS plan to collect CO2 from around eastern and southern Australia and pipe it up to the Cooper Basin. That would have been a real winner.
These sort of schemes give one the feeling that reality distortions are taking place to accomodate the BAU scenario.